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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,054 ✭✭✭jacothelad


    The team has rediscovered it's cutting edge after a long time of substandard outings. Suggestions of filling the team with subs for Wales is foolish. This is a Championship, not a free game in the CC. There is a huge amount of cash and prestige at stake. Running the dirt trackers against Wales would be the height of folly. I would imagine the 23 from Saturday will be bursting with energy again and all will want to play at Home in front of our own fans. They will want to back up the win.

    As I pointed out above, despite our steamrollering of England in most facets of the game, we still conceded 3 tries and only heroic efforts stopped then scoring more, not just the McCloskey and Baloucoune tackles too. There were a number of times when England were within a gnats chuff of scoring. WE did hold them out of course. Looking back at England's loss to Scotland, they were unlucky in conceding the 2 tries that they gifted to Scotland. Genge's howler was uncharacteristic and Ford's drop goal charge down was stupid and not something he would have done 99 times out of 100. That was 14 points given away and they lost by less than that. Scotland were very lucky then and very lucky against Wales who also should have won. Seeing these 2 future games as gimmes is naive. Best side we have both times please. Players can show their worth back at the Provinces. Let's stuff them, never give a sucker an even break.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,794 ✭✭✭50HX


    I agree he deserves to be looked at re scrum half & club form thus rewarded but it ain't happening that he is covering 10 in a test match day 23



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 309 ✭✭big-al


    Casey needs to earn caps. He hasn’t impressed enough in the green jersey to have locked in the bench spot.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,775 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    The problem Doak has is he's trying to be a 10 playing 9.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 309 ✭✭big-al




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,316 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Doak needs to earn caps. He hasn't impressed enough to get a bench spot for Ireland.

    (We can all play that game)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,766 ✭✭✭leakyboots


    Yeah I was purely on about the ceding of metres, nothing else really. Both players making, say, 15 tackles and missing 4 or 5 look the same on paper but SP's tackling, even ones he makes, often end up ceding metres.

    It is unlike Crowley to miss that amount of tackles but it is like SP to miss them (at this level). When he plays for Leinster he is rarely under the sort of defensive pressure he is at international level. Crowley is far more used to playing under pressure or on the backfoot due to Munster's pack not being all-dominating… and it shows I feel. I'm presuming Farrell is still going to give SP game-time but wouldn't be shocked if he pivoted towards Byrne. Frawley was a bit out of left-field for me. Wales look like a 60 minute team now, giving SP the last 20 could be best for him right now and get his mojo going again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,316 ✭✭✭✭phog


    If Sam is getting the last 20 v Wales, is there a case to start Crowley & Casey and close out the game with Prendergast & JGP



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,775 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Lol, have you watched any game he's played? He's kicking regularly. Maybe the coach wants that but he's definitely doing the 10s job a lot.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,766 ✭✭✭leakyboots


    If we're going to go through the championship playing JGP in every game we'll reap what we sow in terms of exposure for backups (Casey or otherwise). Italy and Wales are the games to do this in my opinion. The win the other day takes the pressure off a bit, I'd hope AF makes some changes regardless.

    Beirne at 6 was a great success and Ryan/MacCarthy gave a reminder of what they're capable of in terms of workrate, Ringrose gave a mostly brilliant defensive performance… but I'd still be looking to get game-time into some of Edogbo/Cian P/Timoney/Milne/Tom Stewart/Izzy/Stockdale/Tom Farrell.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,775 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    I find it funny that you want to drop JGP to give younger lads more minutes but you want Tom Farrell to be given a go at 32 years of age.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,766 ✭✭✭leakyboots


    Postlethwaite should have been in there too, I was looking at the original squad list. I don't really care who is added as long as they get minutes. Ward is another I left out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,208 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    France started with much lighter locks against us than Italy. Was that an accident or did they know they had enough up front with those guys and could concentrate on increasing mobility against us? I don’t know what to do about the scrum but I feel it’s our biggest problem.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 309 ✭✭big-al


    he was won MOTM 3 of 4 times for Ulster this season.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,054 ✭✭✭jacothelad


    I would be pretty certain that Big Al has watched every game Doak has played for Ulster.( He has probably watched every game Nathan;s father, Neil Doak played for Ulster too. He also was a competent goal kicker who also played 9 and 10 when needed, He was a member of the Irish rugby squads in 2002 6 Nations and 2003 RWC. I don't think he actually played. He was also an Irish international cricketer who was a fellow member at Lisburn C.C. with me.)

    Nathan isn't a 10 playing 9. It's very simple. He is a 9 who can goal kick to a high standard. In a break glass in an emergency situation, he can put in a shift at 10 at which he is more than competent. Do you think players like Morgan Parra, (9), Ellisalde,(9), Ramos (15) and Greg Laidlaw (9) are / were all 10s masquerading as other positions? They all could and did play 10 when needed. Michael Kiernan was a goal kicker for Ireland for years who played centre. As was his uncle Tom, a full back , for years. Michael wasn't a 10 pretending to be a 12. Ireland ..and others… have a fixation that only the 10 is the one who kicks at goal. Daft thinking,

    Post edited by jacothelad on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,229 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Not sure how this is the case. I said before the game that Farrell was looking for a big performance from his old favourites. And he got it from them. It was a brilliant performance. Best we’ve played since 2023. (England were abysmal but I’d rather not focus on that). So he’s here until the World Cup now, that’s pretty much guaranteed after the England win. They’ve set the standard for themselves now. We know how well they can play.

    However, I do now worry that Farrell will see no reason to give some other guys a go against Wales and Scotland, seen as his modus operandi has always been “why change a winning team?”. And the win doesn’t change the fact that a lot of this team is ageing and have been playing badly for a long time. A lot of those guys played well on Saturday. But we need to be developing options for the probability that some of them do have a drop in form, which will happen.

    We saw World Class displays from McCloskey and Baloucoune. But would these guys be there if it weren’t for injuries/suspensions? Probably not….



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,316 ✭✭✭✭phog


    I'm not ruling him out at all, all I'm saying is, if Farrell has Casey (as he has at the moment) as the back up to JGP then he needs to give him more game time there. I'd be saying the same if Doak was his preferred choice and only getting 7 or 8 minute here and there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,102 ✭✭✭shootermacg


    England were set up to defend a Sam defence. Standing off, sending a guy in to the passing channels. The large sample set of almost all the previous games have involved Sam. The simple fact is, if you stand off Sam, he has nothing for a defense.

    Crowley would eat that defense up all day.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 936 ✭✭✭johnh6767


    Exactly. Casey is the 2nd scrum half and needs to get more game time. We can’t afford to rotate to the extent that we’re diluting beyond the 2nd choice and we need as much game time for JGP / Crowley together to bind them together ahead of Aus 27. JGP & Sam will get lots of time together as will Jack & Casey. Interesting to see DuPont starting v Italy which shows the French mentality to 6N



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 197 ✭✭longjohn200


    Not saying Crowley wasn't good on Saturday but in terms of eating up the English defence - that's a bit of a stretch. What Crowley was good at, was playing simple and facilitating the likes of SMC outside him. He added calmness at no 10 which gave confidence through out the team. It was an efficient performance.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,026 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    One of the great myths of Irish rugby is that Sam Prendergast doesn't threaten the line. There are obvious holes in his game, but we've seen plenty trys scored, in green and blue, where Prendergast brings the ball right up to the defence before passing at the last moment to put a teammate through a gap.



  • Hosted Moderators Posts: 9,478 ✭✭✭fitz


    I'd argue it's actually a strength of his. He tends to position himself very close to the line, so I think it seems like he's not carrying to the line, but it's just cause of where he's received the ball. Not always the case, but it's the only thing I can think contributed to that perception of him not attacking the line.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,020 ✭✭✭DBK1


    After your comment re TOB two weeks ago and how that actually turned out over the weekend I’m sure you’ll forgive everyone reading your current comments for treating them for what they are, complete nonsense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 730 ✭✭✭darkened_scrum


    https://youtube.com/shorts/FrbuRTmVddI

    He does stuff like this all the time for Leinster, like every game. Carrying the ball up to the line, drawing in a defender and passing late is what creates all the space outside him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,205 ✭✭✭✭mfceiling


    So England set their defence up for Prendergast even though they knew Crowley was playing 10?

    You don't think Borthwick would have changed their defensive system after finding out Crowley was out half?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,794 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    We saw World Class displays from McCloskey and Baloucoune. But would these guys be there if it weren’t for injuries/suspensions? Probably not….

    We had everyone fit and available in November and we still picked McCloskey.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 730 ✭✭✭darkened_scrum


    So not only does Sam cast some kind of spell on his own teammates when playing that makes them defend badly (according to some esteemed posters on this forum), his now extending his magical powers to the opposition when he's not even in the 23. The obsession with him rages on, even when he isn't playing.

    Absolutely remarkable stuff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,674 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    Let's also not forget this brilliant insight too from last week too:

    Amongst the highlight was the conclusion where Farrell is described as "a good unit coach, who got promoted beyond his talent".

    Any interest in revisiting any of that analysis I wonder?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,020 ✭✭✭DBK1


    🤣🤣 I suppose they should be admired for even turning up on here after being so consistently proven wrong on so many occasions!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,759 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Did you not also post the following last week?

    Some of you are going to have a real tough time explaining things away if it doesn't go well without Sam in the team. A very tough time indeed.

    Care to offer an update on that particular insight?



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