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Hi all, please see this major site announcement: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058427594/boards-ie-2026

Landlords selling 2026

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 22,107 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    I be slow to call anyone a thicko, however peolpe blaming LL for making a decision that is in there best interest is immature. LL had no say in this legislation its a decision by the government to try to improve the rental situation. That it has implications for LL's was not factored in enough.

    Its the 7th piece of rental legislation in 10 years I think. This legislation has serious implications for LL who have 4 rentals or more. If I had 4 or 5 rentals and this legislation came in I would be selling 1 or 2 to bring myself out of that category

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,217 ✭✭✭spaceHopper




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,239 ✭✭✭80sDiesel


    Happy to listen to your counter argument. ( Fictional characters aside)

    A man is rich in proportion to the number of things which he can afford to let alone.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,501 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    he might be onto something, I was reading up about it the other day, there’s a school of thought that says these could be the next bitcoins, as in get in now they’ll explode in value.
    I don’t hold any and don’t know how much they cost.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 325 ✭✭MadeInKerry


    Its going to be an eviction ban for sure. Fine for people who already have somewhere to live. No to good for those looking for somewhere to live.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 22,107 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    An eviction ban will just continue the exodus. This was why the last eviction ban was lifted because as houses became vacant LL were starting to not put them back into the rental market. Every rental becomes vacant sooner or later. As well outside of major urban area conversions to Airbnb is an option

    Its a simple law of physics rhat states

    "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction"

    Its applies in economics as well.

    Any actions in the rental sector by government is to protect existing renters. However this f@@kup LL's

    For larger LL after any tenancy ends now you need to make a decision are you willing to rent the property for another 6 years. Its only after a 6 year contract you can be gauranteed to get vacant possession. LL with 4-5 properties or even maybe a few more will have to seriously consider a sale to bring themselves back into the small LL category.

    Because of this there will be a constant drip of LLs selling some rentals. There is an assumption that they will be replaced, however its now very expensive for a new LL to enter the market.

    Finally the government has not grasped the nettle of speeding up the termination process. Any rental has a 6 month minimum notice window now. Any tenant looking to appeal a tenancy termination should have lodge the appeal with in 6-8 weeks of the termination notice. The present situation where a tenant can wait until the end of the notice period is very unfair on LL's especially with the lenght of time the process takes. If a tenant is not engaging with the RTB the termination notice should be deemed valid. Any tenant lodging an appeal should have to give there PPS number and proof there off. What is goid for the LL is good for the tenant

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,217 ✭✭✭spaceHopper


    You said "The real AI bubble is legacy companies that are going to be hollowed out by (new) more agile AI native competitors." In the children's story Mary-Poppins, the kid's father was sacked by the bank because he turned down a loan to a guy who was all show and approved a loan to man from humble beginnings / wasn't all show and was expanding his factory.

    The "showman" got the loan from the banks competitor and they lost face. However, the "humble" man's factory and products were huge success, and the competitor bank went bust when the showman ran off with all the money. All was well in the end when the bank begged the father to come back and promoted him. Everybody lived happily ever after.

    Only a kid's story but point is that you have to make something and weather you are legacy company that does or doesn't use AI doesn't matter. If all you do is AI then you have no product. So many companies are purely AI and as soon as somebody better comes along, they are gone.

    Companies are making AI ads that look cheap and they to me devalue the company, see Colgate add with a female dentist talking to a female patient. The dentist's face twitches at the start and her skin tones and facial expression are odd. My guess is it's cheap AI.

    There is massive circle jerk going on between MS/Alphbet/OpenAI/NVIDA/AWS… when it comes to an end there could be a big crash.

    Somebody referenced selling up and putting the money in SNP500. I suggested they get proper advice, as the SNP500 is supposed to be diverse but its 30% SNP-7 and 70% SNP-493. It's becoming high risk. You also have to factor in it's USD based, Trump is trying to weaken the dollar as it makes imports more expensive and exports cheaper. So if you invested in the SNP500 in USD and it falls more, any gains are lowered by the drop in USD value. It's very low now so might not fall much more.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,473 ✭✭✭mrslancaster


    @Bass Reeves

    “Because of this there will be a constant drip of LLs selling some rentals. There is an assumption that they will be replaced,…”

    Another assumption is that any landlord who moved to Airbnb will re-enter the long term market. I know a couple of owners who only do short term lets now and they will never go back to long term rentals. The said the rules are too complicated and they have no control over their own property.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,878 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Yep. All indicators are that there will be significantly less properties to rent in the future, unless there is a major pick up with investors funding developments to offset the small landlords leaving.

    Given that the rent caps have only been tweaked and not removed, the flow of investment is unlikely to materially increase as there is simply no attractive long term yield.

    Renting will get a lot more expensive and a lot harder to come by.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78 ✭✭Dublin_Anthony_2025


    i became a landlord by accident ( was helping a pal out and decided to keep property after he left ) but i'm not making money , €1900 for a 4 bed in North Dublin is far below market rate and it's just covering the mortgage , and in this climate i should be making a few quid and why not ? it's not a charity

    so i'm selling mine due to this factor



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78 ✭✭Dublin_Anthony_2025


    Charging a landlord 52 % tax is the reason most want out

    lower it to be an incentive to keep it will help alot but that's called using your head but they don't as we know



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,923 ✭✭✭ballyharpat


    ok, what do you propose a landlord should do?

    They own a property that is worth 300k, there are people in the property since 2014, the landlord kept the rent low, never increased it, even though he could have, to any anound, before the RPZ. The RPZ came in, his tenants were paying low rent, good tenants, he wanted to give them security, rent was always paid, he was doing ok, prices were low.

    Fast forward to Covid, the tenants stopped paying rent, as the government told tenants they didn't have to, that the banks would 'freeze' mortgages for landlords, the thing is, mortgages still had to be paid as well as expenses. Government brings in an eviction ban, which was even valid for a while, with no rent paid. The tenants were receiving money from the government, the landlord had lost his income, as wasn't eligible for Covid payment.

    Landlord had to get a solicitor to issue a letter of termination to the tenant, as they had paid no rent in months. the day after the letter was received, the tenant paid all the rent, including back rent.

    The landlord increases the rent, but can only increase it by about 1.8% per year.

    Fast forward to 2025, the council do an inspection, it's a private rental. They issue a list that they want done, totaling e16,000, the tenant says they don't want most of them, says that the landlord has been very fair and good to them, the council insist they are done.

    Landlord goes back to the council.

    The house had a new roof done, that was e12,000, had a new cooker e600, new shower e500, that was all in the previous 12 months, the landlord was making e5500 per year after tax, the cost of repairs and maintenance (insurance etc) have increased 100% on the last 8-10 years, now the landlord has to pay 3 years of profit for 'upgrades' and stay at 50% market rent?

    Unfortunately, it's not a charity, the landlord has worked his a## off for years to get this house and keep it up to date. It's no longer feasible, they have an opportunity to get the tenants out and sell the property, or put in some major refurbish and get it up to market rate, where they can make some profit on their investment.

    Do you see the price of houses right now? what is the rental yield?

    The price of rent has gone up, but it has not gone up as much as the price of a house to buy or build.

    So the assh**e landlord that was letting tenants live for well below cost, is not an assh**e anymore, now he's just a guy with a ball of money sitting in his account-Thank you for the treatment of them and spreading the bile that you put out there-you can continue to hate on landlords, and there are less and less of them every day, so keep at it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,239 ✭✭✭80sDiesel


    /delete

    A man is rich in proportion to the number of things which he can afford to let alone.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 490 ✭✭bluedex


    I'm not a rental property provider.

    It really is an awful situation for people who can't find accommodation, and my heart genuinely goes out to them.

    But, anyone who thinks this is all because rental property providers just suddenly decided to issue Notices of Termination, because they want to be mean and throw people out on the street, is indeed monumentally stupid. There's no other way to see it.

    I get that people are incredibly frustrated, but they should direct their frustrations to the correct source of the problems. It's really not that difficult to see where that is.

    Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 490 ✭✭bluedex


    It's one reason, and a big one, but not the only reason. The uncertainty over how much control they will have over their own asset is another huge driver of the exodus. Most rental providers now assume their control will be eroded even further, until ultimately they have little say in what they do with their property.

    Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,473 ✭✭✭mrslancaster


    TBH I don’t see why landlords should pay a lower tax rate that any other taxpayer unless it was for a special type of long term lease, eg a fixed lease for 10/15/20 years that both parties were tied into.

    The minister could have brought in an option for long leases eg, a discounted rent for the tenant with a fixed % for rent increases, a special tax rate for the landlord, and a break clause every 5 years. There’s lots of people who would like an arrangement like that, long security for the tenant, lower tax for the landlord, and an option for either to exit.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 96 ✭✭Aidensfield


    I know of a meeting that took place very recently for airbnb providers in a tourist area, A huge crowd turned up and the question was asked how many of them would consider long term rental. I believe only one hand was raised



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,473 ✭✭✭mrslancaster


    That lack of control over their own property is a huge concern for individual landlords. The minister is tying them into six year and never-ending contracts and then forcing them to sell their asset if they don’t want to be involved in the rental business any more. Does that happen to any other small business owner?

    Imagine if a car dealer, a childcare provider, a hairdresser, a food manufacturer, a farmer, wanted to quit their business, and instead of just ceasing to trade, they were forced by the state to sell that business to another operator, or forced to nominate a close family member to gift their business to, or forced to spend x thousands to extend and renovate their premises and then re-enter that business?

    It sounds crazy that where some private property is concerned, the state can force one group of citizens to act in a specific way yet every other citizen is free to do as they like with the property they own. I don’t get it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 490 ✭✭bluedex


    Now THAT is the basis for a good idea! Incentivise the property provider to enter longer term leases, or something which provides more security for the tenant. It's not exactly rocket science. Whether it's tax or something else, it could be worked out.

    Incentives work so much better than threats, and always have, and are utilised in lots of other socio-economic scenarios. Threats just force a withdrawal of the service. It's incredibly stupid (yes that word again).

    Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,878 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Unless the govt motive is to exit small landlords from the market....then it all starts to make sense.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 490 ✭✭bluedex


    I don't believe that. Why would they want to reduce supply? It just looks like simple incompetence.

    The principle of Occam's Razor applies here, I think.

    Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78 ✭✭Dublin_Anthony_2025


    that's exactly what's happening with their leadership



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,480 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    It's ok for PAYE workers to pay 52% tax, but landlords shouldn't have to pay that much even though they end up with an asset at the end. Ok…

    ===
    boards.ie default cookie settings now include "legitimate interest" for >200 companies, unless you specifically opted out!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,480 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    Sorry, what now? Why are you coming at me with that anecdote? The posts I quoted were (presumably) all people actually paying their rent. There are asshole tenants - a minority. There are asshole landlords - also a minority.

    ===
    boards.ie default cookie settings now include "legitimate interest" for >200 companies, unless you specifically opted out!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 96 ✭✭Aidensfield


    We should have to pay the same tax. The tax is not the issue here. Tenants never want to believe that tax can be as high as 52 percent for landlords but that is a different story. I am not sure what other PAYE workers pay 52%?? I think what the poster meant was it could be an idea as an emergency measure to reduce the rate of tax to try and stop the horses that are bolting but this will not work as it is not the problem. 100% no way, and yes the government has done this in recent years especially for the commercial sector after the crash not by directly cutting the marginal rate but in other ways, There was super generous deals on offer then. If they lowered the tax rate by 10percent or even 15 percent tomorrow it would not make any difference for me, While the rewards might increase the risks are too extreme and they will get even worse. Maybe a 10 to 15% cut might sway a few but only a few. Other landlords may or may not agree with me on this. What do you think lads and ladies?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 96 ✭✭Aidensfield


    So why is every one of your posts filled with hate and anger for landlords if you believe there is a small number of bad guys each side which of course there is? You must have got a really bad deal with a landlord in the past. You say you are not angry but….



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,433 ✭✭✭Iscreamkone


    There are a lot of hurdles to jump to become a landlord now. Banks require huge deposits in order to get a BTL mortgage. BTL mortgages are very expensive - a lot more expensive than mortgages for owner occupier.

    Rents are good now, but tax eats heavily into profits. Maintenance is very expensive and it can be difficult to get plumbers etc to do small jobs.


    Landlord traffic is going in one direction- leaving the business. There is no government incentive to stem the flow. Rents will increase to even higher levels but it still isn’t an attractive investment.

    It’s only attractive at the moment for those who buy BTL properties with their pensions. 100% of profit goes back into the pension pot. The maths still work here I think.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 96 ✭✭Aidensfield


    I think you are right in most of what you say but while the gains may be higher {if }everything goes right for you the other side of the scales has that huge risk sitting on it that is going nowhere fast. life is very different now to say 30 or 40 years back in that things change at lightning speed now you never know what is around the next corner anymore. Covid, Brexit, AI, Global financial crisis, Bank bailouts, Trump, Poo tin etc. In todays world i think it is important to try to keep a good percentage of your assets as liquid as possible.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,923 ✭✭✭ballyharpat


    It's not an anecdote, its a real scenario. The tenant is paying the rent.

    Have you a problem reading?

    Or just being able to follow a scenario? It would make sense, as anything you've said or written has just been stand alone, there is no continuation of follow through. You do not address any points that are put to you, but continue putting out the same story , just using different words.

    Now, my first sentence in my post was, 'what do you propose a landlord should do?'

    That's a question, a real question, this is not isolated, this is where people with your train of thought have no understanding of 'Occam's razor'.

    I'll reply to you, and I will not 'ignore' you, if you actually give a thoughtful reply to my question.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,056 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Any earnings over about 70k face a 40 + 4 + 8 = 52% marginal tax rate.

    Wages or rent or profits of sole traders.

    I can't see any rationale for applying a lower tax rate to one type of income.



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