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Energy infrastructure

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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 98,118 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    https://www.rte.ie/news/regional/2026/0216/1558815-galway-eu-canals/

    The WATERWAY project will see the installation of three small-scale hydropower turbines at selected sites, bringing the canals that once powered the city's mills and industries back to life.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,150 ✭✭✭✭Birdnuts


    Its meant to be part of EU nature restoration area and has already started to recover with return of peatland plant life and significant re-occupation of Red-Listed Bird species like Lapwing etc. which over time will lead to near full recovery as demonstrated on older cut-aways like the Boora and Ballydangan complex's that have been allowed to recover. It also regulary holds flood water from the Shannon and has slowed peat silt loss into to same. In any case this proposed windfarm significantly imposes on nearby large SAC's sites like the Shannon not to mention major flyways for migrating wildfowl. Gounging it out again to host a windfarm is madness!!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 316 ✭✭tppytoppy


    It appears that the wind and solar proponents of these sub-forums have run out of excuses and hurl around insults like "ignore him, he is a re-reg" and "tut, tut, shameful NIMBY savages blocking progress"

    Post edited by tppytoppy on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 316 ✭✭tppytoppy


    A public representative looking to do the State some service would roll back all the laws which the Greens primarily introduced as their pound of flesh for not collapsing governments, rules which made solar and wind the only game in town. A pragmatic statesman would think outside the box and do something radical like marketing Ireland as a pioneering economy receptive to carbon zero electricity through Nuclear or if they don't possess the political capital for that enter purchase agreements for nuclear electricity from plants to be built in Wales reming the financial risks associated with them. Blanketing Ireland in solar and wind turbines will not work and at some stage will undermine our food security.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    Nobody owes you a discussion. You are free to post whatever you want, but there’s nowhere in the forum rules that says we have to engage with your posts. Anyone who’s tried to engage with you in good faith before has, like me, given up and won’t bother again.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 316 ✭✭tppytoppy


    From where I look you never were debating in good faith with anyone. You are an advocate for the destruction of Ireland's rural landscape. If you cared about the local environment rather than the nebulous idea of being an environmentalist you would be on my side of the argument and demand a total prohibition of Datacentre build out until such time as they can be run carbon neutral without destroying Ireland's habitat on land and offshore. This is a problem local to this small nation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,513 ✭✭✭riddlinrussell


    I do agree with you on the data centres bit FWIW

    Boards is in danger of closing very soon, if it's yer thing, go here (use your boards.ie email!)

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 316 ✭✭tppytoppy


    Maybe we can power them all with meat and bone meal incinerators. Maybe they were on the right path with whale oil. Totally carbon neutral. No nasty radioactivity. That was sarcasm. I consider endless wind farms a similar folly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,513 ✭✭✭riddlinrussell


    With the crazy increases in efficiency for Solar, I'm inclined to agree

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,585 ✭✭✭Consonata




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,872 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Yes it is. Floating offshore wind, for the expensive lose.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,602 ✭✭✭✭josip


    A somewhat disjointed solar farm in South Kilkenny has been given planning permission, a total of 470 acres

    https://www.farmersjournal.ie/news/news/470ac-kilkenny-solar-farm-given-green-light-904151

    https://www.pleanala.ie/publicaccess/Case%20Documentation/323985/Applicant%20Documents/22.%20CEMP/Drumdowney%20Solar%20Farm%20Construction%20Environmental%20Management%20Plan.pdf

    I can't find any mention of the capacity in MW, only that it will result in a yearly reduction of 41,647t of CO2.

    image.png

    Great Island power station is directly across the river from plot 4.

    Post edited by josip on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    470 acres would put it in the 180~200 MW range. Gallanstown in Meath is 500 acres and 198 MW.

    If I’m right, Ireland now has about 2.4 GW of solar either in operation or under construction. That is an incredible ramp up in such a short period of time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,710 ✭✭✭dmakc


    "will result in a yearly reduction of 41,647t of CO2"

    Seems very sales pitchy. Can I ask how they come to this conclusion? Hard make sense of it at a time when economic policy is to drive on with LEUs, and capacity decisions being driven by peak winter demand.

    The TSO's aren't switching off a CCGT saying "we have a 200 MW solar farm coming online, we don't need this". This complex will ultimately end up facilitating a new load rather than actual displacement of FFs.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,122 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Actually that is exactly what happens, when there is a lot of sun or wind power available, the CCGT’s “shutdown” as they can’t compete with the lower price of wind/solar.

    To be pedantic, not every CCGT turns off as we are currently only at 75% SNSP, but most of them do during these periods.

    The yearly reduction comes from not needing to run the CCGT’s when solar is available.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,401 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    But does this calculation of an alleged yearly reduction account for the higher carbon output from the 7 CCGTs remaining online? At lower output, they're far dirtier and spewing out significantly more CO2. Given that there's no accurate data in the public domain on CO2 emissions (or NOx or SOx), I'm gonna assume that this is just the puff piece that it appears to be.

    Plus the CCGTs that are displaced are pretty carbon intensive in their ramp down and ramp up as they turn off and back on. Factor in the additional wear and tear (which means more carbon to produce new parts) and suddenly that alleged saving isn't quite as big a number.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 924 ✭✭✭bored65


    capacity factor of 10% that’s same output as a single 240mw turbine over the year

    All while taking out hundreds of acres of good agricultural land out of production



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 924 ✭✭✭bored65


    Good point, have they proven that a larger amount of coal was not burned in China where there panels were build and transported from



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,401 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    240 milli watts? I've LED torches with bigger outputs than that.

    At least get the prefix right if you are going to make a point. However, the rest of your argument is also false. Any 240MW turbine will most likely be unavailable due to maintenance or forced outage for some time during the year. It is also unlikely to sit at maximum output as base load 24/7/365. Assuming the capacity factor of a reasonably efficient CCGT is around 60%, then it would be more akin to a 400MW unit.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    Annualised, yes, but demand is not steady state. A single 240 MW turbine could never push 2+ GW into the grid and displace about a third of our other generation.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 924 ✭✭✭bored65


    You be lucky if you even get one hour of 2GW of productivity during the whole year at these low low capacity rates

    Beside questionable carbon figures since all of these are made using coal and slave power in China, all while converting vast swathes of good agricultural land into industrial estates here

    The highly misleading figures being thrown around is precisely why people are getting upset about ever increasing prices of energy.

    If this truly can provide a third of our generation then why are price only ever going up and up and up, by hyping up highly misleading figure you only ensures there endsup being a backlash against solar

    Aside I fully support rooftop solar (have it on own roof) but converting whole fields of good land into industrial estates for so little actual real world generation that then requires equal amounts of gas as backup is pure madness



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,712 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    One hundred years ago, there was a lot of 'hundreds of acres of good agricultural land' given over to feeding horses that used to do the work now done by tractors. Solar panels can be installed so that sheep can graze around them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 924 ✭✭✭bored65


    One hundred years ago we had 1.9 billion people to feed

    Now it’s 8.23 billion

    With another 69.8 million that be added this year alone, which coincidentally is what the whole of UK population is next door

    By taking away existing agricultural land you are increasing the carbon footprint as rainforests will be chopped down to feed these people



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,712 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Look, world population is off-topic, but agriculture is more efficient now than then producing more food per acre/hectare.

    Let us just leave it there.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,122 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    All of that is a fraction of running those same CCGT’s all full tilt and of course having all CCGT’s online and generating!

    And of course as we move to 95% SNSP even less CCGT’s will be needed to be kept on standby at any one time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 924 ✭✭✭bored65


    I wasn’t the one who raised carbon footprints {a topic hilariously enough created by BP} and emissions and other highly questionable used figures higher up

    The poster made claims and I have pointed out that at best they are highly misleading at worst the real world impact of these infrastructure projects is not a positive for the environment and climate but highly negative when you account for all externalities

    Ain’t the purpose of renewables to address negative externalities of other power generation sources needed by an ever growing human populations?

    What’s the purpose of thread about energy infrastructure when discussions of various negative aspects of this infrastructure is not permitted {and discussion of other green alternatives is suppressed}? Without discussion and examination it becomes nothing more than a propaganda outlet for energy companies who have taken the people of this country for an expensive ride while lying about environmental benefits and basic science, economics and engineering



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,401 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    95% is years away. There's no noise about even 80% yet as plans last year seems to have been abandoned and Eirgrid never explained how they go further.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,602 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Do you mean all 4 of these synchronous condenser contracts have been cancelled?

    https://www.eirgrid.ie/news/eirgrid-awards-four-contracts-new-renewable-integration-technologies

    I see Quinbrook bought out Green Frog in July 2025. I presume this is still moving ahead but won't be operational until 2027/8 and we won't hear much in the interim.

    https://www.enlit.world/library/quinbrook-enters-irish-market-with-synchronous-condenser-acquisition

    Post edited by josip on


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,122 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Plus the above article Eigrid press release says:

    Earlier this year, EirGrid announced that it had reduced the minimum number of large conventional fossil-fuelled generators that must operate on Ireland’s electricity grid at any one time from five to four. 

    So we are already down to running just 4 fossil fuel generators during high renewables periods.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    You know nothing about how solar power works, I see. I have a 2.8 kW domestic install that exceeds 90% of rated output for four hours a day every sunny day during summer. Right now, as I type, on a bright February morning, it's producing about 30% of rated peak.

    But yeah, I can imagine that a multiple arrays of panels in dozens of better locations around the county with no trees to shade them would do worse than my home install. The 2.0 GW I mentioned is 80% of a 2.4 rated capacity... an even lower target to hit.

    We can of course count the embedded CO2 from manufacturing and shipping of panels... but to argue on the same basis, you must also count the emissions for extraction, refining and transport of natural gas. The only positive of gas was that it used to be dirt cheap and easily sourced.

    Solar is so cheap now that the opposition to solar energy at this stage is more about adhering to some weird Conservative political dogma than any kind of reason. A once off spend to reduce dependency on a fuel with volatile pricing that is controlled by hostile governments (and Norway, to be fair)... yeah, let's oppose that because... why?



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