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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 326 ✭✭Rayray98


    No because with Crowley and Osborne in the XV you’ve got enough versatility that you can afford to have a specialist FH on the bench in a 6/2 split, you also have JGP an Ringrose who can cover the wing.


    The 10 jersey is definitely not the only issue with this team right now but the more I watch Ireland with Crowley at 10 the more I’m convinced that it’s still a large contributing factor. It’s not just how Crowley plays but I feel with him on the field we look much more assured collectively plus our attack is more unpredictable with him there. Like I’ve said many times, there was far too many players playing at a 4-6/10 level which is nowhere near enough to beat a top side, but if the change at 10 is enough to raise that level to a 7-8/10 across the board then it’s a change we need to make.


    What ever happens with the 23 shirt one thing is for sure, Crowley needs to start this weekend if we want any chance and if he does who knows, this could be the game that seals him the Irish 10 shirt going forward if all goes well.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 17,416 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    I think Byrne could cover 12 and 15 , certainly a better option than Prendergast might be in those positions.

    I think Prendergast either starts or he isn't in the 23 , especially with all of the other injuries.

    If Keenan was available suddenly Osbournes flexibility becomes usable and you could afford to have a "single use" player on the bench.

    Prendergasts playing style requires a dominant pack providing extremely fast possession which gives him the time to pick out those passes.

    The Irish pack is not currently providing that level of dominance so the impact of Prendergasts struggles and confidence dip are greatly amplified.

    I think both Crowley and Byrne are the better options playing behind the current pack.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,682 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985




  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,060 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Could is doing an awful lot of supposition there though. I don't think Harry Byrne has spent a minute of his career at fullback (indeed when him and SP are on the pitch together this season for Leinster it is SP at fullback). No matter which of them is on the bench, Crowley is going to be the one moving out of the 10 jersey if they have to come on.

    I think if SP is on the bench you need a 5/3 bench, but the only one who could do a Crowley-esque job on the bench is Frawley and I would be far from enamoured with that.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 17,416 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    That's not an unreasonable viewpoint.

    I think we likely need the 6-2 to try to provide the necessary heft for the full 80 minutes against England but our options are severely limited given the lack of player availability.

    I think Crowley starts and a 6-2 bench is the most likely decision and therefore based on the fit and available options I think Byrne is the best pick for the 23 shirt.

    If any of Aki, Henshaw , Keenan or Hansen were available or if Jimmy O'Brien or Frawley were showing anything like their best form , the choice would be different , but none of them are a viable choice for this weekend.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,023 ✭✭✭ujjjjjjjjj


    If Keenan comes back Osborne enters the equation for 13 , until then it's Ringers. That is how I think Farrell sees it.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 17,416 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Did I not read that Keenan was not expected back before the end of the 6N ?

    I think Porter is the only one of the injured that they think may be back before the end.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 145 ✭✭Sammy96


    I would be shocked if Farrell drops Prendergast.

    I think he is guaranteed to start against England. Farrell is going with him no matter what.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,228 ✭✭✭bingobango12


    Nah, I would say almost impossible to start him after Saturday. It would be absolutely crazy from Farrell and co. Confidence must also be completely shot. I would hope he gets released to Leinster next week to try build some confidence back against Cardiff. They can afford to play him vs Wales if they choose to and again try get some confidence back in that fixture.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32 geoff2204




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,211 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    Performance wanes as players both age and accumulate injuries.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,780 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Crowley and Prendergast are disasters waiting to happen for distinctly opposite reasons. I want to see Byrne get a shot. Far more balanced on both sides of the ball than the other two, he just won't make the big mistake.

    I wouldn't have McCarthy in the 23. I know Ryan and Beirne is a little light but I think overall it's our best pairing in the second row.

    Ringrose has to be replaced but a good option for the bench.

    I wouldn't be against Milne getting a shot after how he did off the bench against France. I've heard criticism of his scrummaging but I didn't see it against France but in fairness they didn't go after us there.

    I couldn't believe that Timoney didn't start against Italy. Conan for me is a beast off the bench but shouldn't be starting. I think Timoney earned the opportunity with his performance against France and should start.

    Front row is a massive concern but there's no great hopes there. We need to try other players though. I can tell you there's nobody in Connacht,

    Billy Bohan looks like an enormous talent but he's only 20 and needs more time I think. But maybe we need to look at the younger ones like him and Niall Smyth.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,211 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    Times have changed. Assuming a win at Wales, our must win matches are against Italy and Scotland. We’re half way. England are dodgy enough - we might get something there - but we look like the third best team in the tournament. Perhaps. Scotland’s back line sizzled against the English. Their centres are in fine form, esp. Jones.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,067 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Farrell could use the coherence of the Ulster backs as a positive for the team, given how lacklustre Leinster have been this season.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,272 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    I wouldn’t be surprised if SP starts either. Don’t think he should, but won’t be in the slightest bit surprised if AF picks him



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    Completely agree the England game 'plan' of HOOF IT-TAP IT/RUCK IT-RUN IT Perfectly matched to bust Ireland open and Borthwick selects accordingly: Steward, Roebuck, Freeman, Earl, Underhill, Pepper etc

    Yep They arent 'all that' BUT if they get ahead in the game; the Kicking, the Big carries and Big tackles will pound Ireland.

    They will be even stronger this week by moving Freeman to wing.

    Scrum - I dont know the answer but this is an issue across 4 provinces.

    Interestingly Kelleher and Bealham started the game last year v England and did ok v Cowan-Dickie and Genge.

    (Thankfully Ben O'Keeffe was also the referee that day)

    Kelleher to start instead of Sheehan? Sheehan is not playing great, scrum is cracked, maybe start Kelleher (tell him quick throws or hit the front of the lineout or over the top) and have Edogbo also start behind Bealham?

    (FYI POM was saying Bealham is a very technical scummager 'doyaknowwhatimean')



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 5,320 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    I dont think Crowley or Prendergast are disasters waiting to happen. I dont think Byrne is either more balanced than the other 2, He simply isnt good enough. the others are better

    I dont see Ryan and Beirne as lightweight in the row and they get enough work done and are good in the air.

    Bohan isnt near an Irish call up. we should look at younger options but you cant pick guys not even getting games with their provinces.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,272 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    A lot of ulster lads owe their international recognition to Richie Murphy. They are completely transformed under him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    They also have the better Sexton coach.

    Irish coaches all have limited coaching experience.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 334 ✭✭letsbefair


    The bad thing is that whomever starts on Saturday will be under even more pressure and scrutiny. Not good and not fair. Time for all real supporters to get behind the team. For me the crowd reactions on Saturday were pathetic. Andy Farrell is 100% correct.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,211 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    I believed in building the Ireland team around Leinster when that team was so dominant. Now it may be time to look at ‘synergies’ elsewhere. McCloskey has been our happiest story so far in this tournament.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 326 ✭✭Rayray98


    Not when the players in question are still under 30…



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 17,416 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    I think Ulster also benefitted from the fact that they HAD to play all those younger lads through last season as they had no other options and now that all those 22/23 year olds all have 20+ starts under their belts they are really starting to show through.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    Mol an óige agus tiocfaidh sí

    That may not be on the wall in Ravenhill though!

    But yes. giving the youth a chance definitely played a big part. If only some people could learn to live by that motto.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,067 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    I wouldn't have a single Leinster outside back over their Ulster counterpart this season. Might put Kenny at 11, but he's very different to Ward.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,211 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    I can’t think beyond the front five at the moment. If they perform in the scrum like they did against Italy then no back line will save us. What a worry. Sheehan has been ordinary so far, way below his best. Nobody could object to Kelleher starting. I noticed a lineout overthrow from Kelleher too when he came on against Italy. I hope Furlong somehow improves this week. He didn’t look fit. One or two nice passes and that was it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,780 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Bohan started the A game against England earlier this month.

    I'm saying I'm not sure he's ready and needs more time.

    Scott Wilson from Ulster also started that game with Gus McCarthy at hooker.

    As regards Crowley and Prendergast. Same has been awful.in both games. People were saying good things about Jack after Saturday's game but he made stupid decisions in that game too. I'm not saying he played badly but those poor decisions can cost a team. That didn't happen on Saturday.

    I really think Harry is better than both of them and I'm not calling him great or anything close to it by saying that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,887 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    One of the major factors in the decline of Ireland's performance is the Nienaber system operating at Leinster.

    Not only does that system not suit Leinster's players, it means that they must play completely different systems between club and country. A greater variation between the highest contributing province and the national team than has ever been seen in the thirty year professional era.

    That jarring variance is best demonstrated in the showing of some superb players like Joe McCarthy, Caelan Doris and Garry Ringrose, who are all operating far below their talent levels, because they are tired, frustrated and mentally drained.

    A strategic decision will have to be made at Union level how to address this.

    Rud O'Connor this morning suggests that although Nienaber runs the Leinster defence, he is also de facto in charge of the entire rugby programme in Leinster.

    He further suggests that Nienaber be paid off, and that Joe Schmidt come in as senior coach under Leo Cullen and that between himself, Andy Farrell and David Humphreys, and indeed with the 3 other provincial team coaches, they institute an ethos of excellence in skills and open attacking rugby that suits our traditions and our physical attributes as a playing pool.

    It doesn't sound like the worst idea to me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,759 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    For me the crowd reactions on Saturday were pathetic. Andy Farrell is 100% correct.

    For the sake of accuracy, here is what Farrell said about the crowd reaction:



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,887 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Farrell is entitled to spin that for the wellbeing of his players in whatever way he sees fit.

    But he isn't correct.

    I was there, it was a cheer of irony and relief that Prendergast was being taken off.

    And everyone must deal with the reality of that in their own way.



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