Immigration and Ireland - MEGATHREAD *Mod Note Added 02/09/25*

Regarding Cuddihy (and that’s probably the first major embarrassment of his Liveline tenure) the clip below gives an insight into his progressive outlook on immigration.

His general point that Ireland’s genetics are a mixture of north-west-European peoples is an interesting one. But it’s quite another thing to argue that the concept of nativeness to Ireland is incoherent, with the implication that only a bigot could object to further immigration. Twenty years ago this would have been radical stuff.

Many TDs.

How about do your research to prove otherwise as to dismiss does nothing for your argument.

Cuddihy would not have been let anywhere near the dials for a show like Liveline unless his open borders credentials were anything less than impeccable.

You seem to think I care if we look heavy handed. I don’t. I’d welcome heavy-handedness. They applied for asylum, don’t meet the criteria, goodbye. Next flight home. Every day they are here they are costing the taxpayer money. Get rid.

https://www.msn.com/en-za/news/other/schoolboy-rugby-stars-in-ireland-could-be-deported-to-south-africa/ar-AA1VYtQU

The family sounds lovely but can't figure it out. The sons are incredible athletes, sound nice and Gonzaga gave them a sports scholarship that amounts to about €8000 a year.

Will gonzaga ever give a scholarship to an Irish child from a disadvantaged area. What about a black coloured Irish child?

If they're not entitled to asylum why are they here.

The whole thing reminds me of the Belvedere boys sleep out over Christmas where they collect the money that might have gone to a poor homeless soul. Private schools....

I don't care if you care about coming across heavy handed. But what I am telling you is that if your policies are seen as heavy handed, they will last a few months and then fail.

It's up to you to decide whether you want a short term policy that conforms to what you want but fails quickly, or a decades long policy that achieves some of your key aims.

Up to you.

An Irish fellow has a documentary out with some fairly big names in America discussing the ‘exportation’ of the culture wars. I thought, fantastic - lots of stuff about Irish lefties adopting beliefs and language that emerged on US campuses twelve months earlier. But, no, it seems to be confined to right wing politics. From the transcript:

‘And instead of entertainment and just culture traveling across, politics did as well. And then the culture wars stuff were more specifically when we were talking about some of the trans issues beforehand. The Gender Recognition Act was something that I think was debated in the Dail in 2015, 2016.

And it wasn't really any massive amount of pushback. We've got Paul Murphy, the TD in the documentary too, who spoke about that. And he said it wasn't until a couple of years later then that it became these people who had cottoned on, that it was a major issue that riled people up in the US, that if they did it here, it would get people riled up here too.’

It seems entirely beyond his powers of imagination that the reason the Gender Recognition Act was not controversial at the time might be because it was sneaked through at a time of overwhelming progressive consensus within the establishment. As that consensus recedes, and cases like Barbie Kardashian come to light, we naturally revisit things we tacitly supported at the time. It is staggeringly simplistic to say, ‘It didn’t exist then, it exists now, therefore it must have come from abroad.’

The relevance to this thread is that the very same argument is made about immigration. These people, who advocate for a characteristically American multiculturalism, will accuse you of importing ‘American culture wars shite’ if you do what every society in the history of humanity has done and instinctually oppose rapid demographic change.

Incidentally, culture wars was a phrase the left wouldn’t allow you use until about a year ago.

I’d argue that public sentiment on this issue, at least as it relates to asylum-related immigration, is less unstable than you credit. In the UK, the Government is in the process of adopting a policy that will re-interpret asylum as a temporary status rather the permanent status that it previously conferred in practice, this will involve regular re-examination of asylum status and enforced deportation if applicable. As a policy this is supported by a majority (55%) of the public. It is a radical re-interpretation of a system that regarded asylum status as a direct pathway to citizenship. Amendments to Indefinite Leave to Remain for asylum recipients are accepted as a given, the debate in the UK at the moment is whether to apply the amendments retroactively to multiple types of immigrant. At an EU level, the initial discussions on the EU Migration Pact excluded the concept of third-country processing, a measure which, once implemented, will allow EU Member States to enforce deportations and entertain appeals from outside the EU. In actuality, third-country processing was only included in the Pact once the draft Pact was initially agreed, it is an indicator of the pace of re-calibration on this issue. According to polling, a majority of the public (56%) in Ireland supported a form of the measure that involved processing the initial claim outside of the EU. It is true that the optics employed by the Trump administration would be unpopular but there is a difference between efficiently enforcing a deportation order and indulging in the unpleasantness of it. If I were a pro-migrant organisation, I’d be consoled that at least the re-drafting of the Refugee Convention and the European Convention on Human Rights is out of the question, for the moment…

So some South Africans with children are being deported but not those with friends whos children attend private school. I don't see how this isn't an example of class privilege in Ireland. Surely all asylum seekers should be treated the same and deported if their claims fail, its manifestly unfair to have different rules based on who you know

I came on here to talk about that family from South Africa (safe country) who have been here since 2023, live in Dundrum and one of the sons attends a private school already. WTF!

The Mum is a good person because she volunteers (obviously saw the cheat sheet).

Seriously if they get their case accepted now, I am offically giving up on this country and lament what has happened here in the last 10 years, 5 years to be precise.

I have said before that most of my Dad's family live in South Dublin but his grand nieces and nephews will never be able to afford to buy a house there now. Not one of them could afford to buy or rent in Dundrum and not one of them was ever offered a scholarship in a private school nor could their family afford to send them to one in this day and age. Despite their parents working hard.

Certainly not after living in this country for 2-3 years.

I am really starting to give up on this place. Betrayal is a horrible thing.

If you play Rugby in a private school then you get a pass.

😄

Edit ... get it ?... nevermind

Think your conception of 'right wing' is not accurate. Some of these may have used the Rhetoric of a right wing but clearly governed Liberal Left.

Not to dissimilar to some wealthy benefactors such as Murdoch who might rhetorically be anti-immigration in his newspapers. But absolutely wants immigration- just go back to 2013 where he advocates for high immigration to Australia.

In the USA context it seems Trump's second term is the first time Right Wing policies have started to be implemented. Suspension of immigration from 75 countries, ICE, Defunding USAID etc.

In the context of the UK it's clear that the 'right wing' are just neoliberals who still hold onto to the social liberal consensus. The Conservatives throughout their 12 year reign governed entirely along the whims of socially liberal ideals- especially inducing mass immigration.

The UK still does not have a party anywhere near close to an actual right wing such as the AFD- Rupert Lowe's new outfit appears to be the closest. The socially liberal consensus on immigration is extremely strong amongst the UK elite.

Which is also the reason why the Radcliffe comments were particularly shocking. As it's the first time someone has actively hinting towards a split from Elite Consensus.

Professor David Betz provides some better insight on this matter

https://x.com/DavidBe31099196/status/2022033401826443686?s=20

Unreal, so not only did the bould Seamus Culleton run out on drug dealing charges, he also ran out on his two twin girls. In their own words.

The two young women said their mother has not received ‘a penny’ in child maintenance from Mr Culleton since he ‘abandoned’ them.

RTE put this man on a pedestal without doing a shred of due diligence. Will their be any apologies or retractions for attempting to hoodwink the public? Or do they just quietly attempt to brush their embarrassing mistake under the carpet? 💩💩💩

The whole Culleton story also showed the benefits of social media and X, for all its faults.

If gives peope and outlet to call out the bullshit spread by the mainstream media as in the past they were gatekeepers of information and "the truth" whereas they arent anymore.