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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,838 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Rest of the world is moving on, meanwhile Ireland signs up to clean energy pact at North Sea Summit. What's in the Hamburg declaration?, viable electricity generation or political virtue signalling at consumers expense?

    This Declaration does not create any rights or obligations under national or international law.
    Regarding the participating EU Member States, the Declaration does not prevail over the rights
    and obligations arising from their membership of the European Union.

    No doubt Irish politicians will spin this as "moral & international obligations" as excuse to tax Irish citizens more to underwrite scams such as "green hydrogen", "carbon capture & storage" and off-shore wind turbines.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,838 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Squeaky bum time in Germany for those managing gas supplies. Reserves are getting very low, below 20% maintaining pressure in the gas network starts to become a problem.

    Main points: Germany’s Natural Gas Storage Level Dwindles To Just 28%… Increasingly Critical

    • LNG terminal on Rügen shut down – ice cover blocks access for LNG tankers
    • In 2011, they had 17 nuclear reactors supplying over a third of the electrical power. They shut them down, they must burn coal and gas to generate power. If they maintained nuclear, their gas supplies would not be under the same pressure the are today and they would have been "greener".
    • German Chancellor Merz has allegedly banned any debate on the topic before March elections
    • Reduction of storage levels usually lasts until the end of March; only when it is warm enough from April onwards can they begin to refill the storage tanks before the heating season begins again in October/November. They have such a deficit that this will be difficult to achieve. No significant difference between Summer and Winter gas prices, they only filled up the minimum required ahead of Winter.
    • And EU agrees on complete ban of Russian gas imports by 2027

    I think many leaders are confusing framework participation with substantive obligation. EU states are increasingly divided on the question of Net Zero (Poland, Hungary, Italy, parts of Germany and France openly questioning pace and cost.) Net Zero has effectively become process without power (e.g. 1930s League of Nations).

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 306 ✭✭Hodger


    Sorry if this has already been flagged earlier in the thread (I haven't read every single page), but I think I need to highlight on Section 38 of the Road Traffic Act / green policy of active travel.

    To me, this legislation is an absolute travesty and, frankly, completely anti-democratic. It’s being used as a blunt instrument to force these "Active Travel" schemes onto local communities without their consent and without proper oversight.

    Take one area in my town for example. We had a roundabout that worked perfectly fine for years—two lanes, kept traffic moving. Under this scheme, they choked it down to a single lane. Now? It’s just constant tailbacks every evening. They took something that worked and broke it.

    The worst part is that our elected representatives were powerless to stop it. I’ve actually heard councillors admit it: "Us Councillors have no say whatsoever. It was a decision made by Active Travel... if we don't agree with it, they can still put it in under Section 38."

    https://www.waterford-news.ie/news/councillors-have-no-say-whatsoever-active-travel-works-draw-further-criticism_arid-85429.html

    It also boils down to a form of taxation without representation. people pay Local House Tax, businesses pay their rates, yet the people we actually vote for to represent our communities on local councils have zero power to block or amend these plans. It’s madness that unelected officials can just bypass the democratic process like this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,507 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    The argument against nuclear used to be that the Irish grid was too small for even the smallest reactors. And that safety was a huge concern.

    Progress has been made on both counts.

    I would imagine both sides would have good points. I am not fully swayed on the idea myself.

    What do people know about it here? Or dare I ask?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,507 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Well that is the point. China's problem is OUR problem they produce so much because we ask so much from them. A producer is always going to produce more C02 I wish humanity would see this as a global rather than a national issue where we compete to tell each other off.

    Co-operation would be better.

    China was able to stop producing so much cement. Which led to the drop .. which basically meant 7% drop in emissions.

    This basically accounted for most of the drop. But the demands on china are as much international as domestic. They produce like 50 % of the world's cement. There is now a decline in demand for cement. I dont know enough to tell you if this is permanent or not sorry about that.

    But well instead of saying this is China's fault or India's fault or whomever. We need to work together more positively and understand we all place these demands on each other.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 927 ✭✭✭bored65


    Similar reasoning is being used to inflict Eiffel Tower tall wind turbines and carpet thousands of acres of prime agricultural land in solar panels and fields full of container sized battery on rural communities {equipment that is produced in China with coal power and slave labour}, leading to arguments that are tearing apart rural communities which imho is going to be big issue come next election as it’s breeding resentment especially as electricity prices keep going up and up



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,878 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Where should they be built if not in rural areas? They will help bring the price of electricity down in the medium term.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 927 ✭✭✭bored65


    Solar on rooftops in towns and cities? Wind ontop of Dublin mountains and bay overlooking Dublin where the demand lies??



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,878 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Why build them in populated areas with higher land costs?

    Most of ireland is rural so why not build them where most of the land lies?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 927 ✭✭✭bored65


    Because that’s where the majority of the demand is? and agricultural land {can’t build on hills and bogs as they are protected} is needed to feed the ever growing world population which other wise gets fed by chopping down rainforests

    Sounds to me like you want electricity and food but as long as it’s in someone else’s backyard but your own



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,878 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Its well estsblished that it makes sense for wind farms to be built in rural areas. Cheaper build costs, more land to build at scale and less impact to the population.

    We dont need the number of farms that we have in ireland. 90% of produce is exported and climate targets will in time reduce the number of farms we have.

    I do appreciate that its not great news if they are built in your particular area and i sympathise on that.

    The flip side is they have to go somewhere and the fewer people that are impacted is probably the best outcome.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 927 ✭✭✭bored65


    So to summarise the Green inclined don’t see issues with;

    • China using coal to mine and refine dirty rare earths for wind turbines manufacturing releasing CO2 and polluting the environment
    • Also using slave labour (and more coal) as exposed in recent RTE investigations for solar manufacturing
    • These then being transported half way across the globe and installed in rural areas away from urban residential and industrial demand necessitating further construction of power lines because you don’t want them in your own backyard but those culchies sure what they know
    • Some of the best agricultural land being taken out if circulation while the world and Irish population is rapidly growing
    • This then leading to rainforests being chopped down for more agriculture in likes of Brazil

    So in short you want green policies despite them being anything but green and amounting in reality to performative green washing while hurting the environment and communities across Ireland and causing massive environmental damage {and rewarding slavery} on the same planet we share with likes of China and Brazil etc

    You should rename yourself to DystopianDreams

    Edit; typos



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,878 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    We were talking about wind farms in Ireland, not slavery in China.

    My only point is that it makes sense to build the wind farms in ireland in rural ireland.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,360 ✭✭✭beggars_bush


    There are no turbines being built on prime agricultural land

    They're all being put on bogs that have already been strip mined by Bord na Mona, on barren hillsides that have been over grazed and increasingly offshore

    The one upside to the turbines on hills is that access roads are built and they are great for hiking and leisure cycling



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 927 ✭✭✭bored65




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 927 ✭✭✭bored65


    Great so put them up on hills overlooking Dublin giving cycle paths for locals



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,878 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    What is your obsession with putting them in Dublin?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,993 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    I suspect it is to do with claims (be it fair or unfair) of NIMBYism towards the Green Party, who are basically a very Dublin-centric party.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 927 ✭✭✭bored65


    Like I said that’s where most of the country’s demand lies

    But if you must know I live in a mostly rural county where tall wind generators and overhead power lines, gas peaker plants {needed because solar and wind are so unreliable} and now massive solar farms taking thousands of acres of prime agricultural land have;

    • ripped apart communities that see zero direct benefits while like everyone else seeing ever increasing cost of living and energy costs
    • Provide next to no employment while killing the tourist industry
    • Now in middle of destroying the farming industry
    • Reduce values of houses while destroying the landscape turning it industrial with tall security fences being both an eye sore {never mind the turbines and fields of glass themselves} but preventing wildlife moving about
    • Questions around safety as now container sized batteries are being installed in fields that sit on top of water tables with no fire departments nearby in case of industrial accidents and fires

    All so more datacenters can be build in Dublin while there being very questionable environmental benefits if any at all

    If you and your community are fine with all of this then sure go right ahead and build all this industry in areas that are already industrialised and need energy plenty of mountains, rooftops and the sea near Dublin



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,878 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Surely the farm owners must have approved the solar panels on their farmland?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,838 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    There are severe infrastructure bottlenecks that have a host of causes e.g. Water and sewage capacity, electricity distribution and transport that create long delays in utility connections coupled with paralysis in the state run planning sector. There are several reasons, one of which is the Climate Action and Low Carbon Development Act 2015 which ruled planning authorities now have a legal obligation to consider "climate objectives".

    Under the guise of central planning the Irish economy, The people we elected to run the state over the past three decades have decreed that transport and heating must be electrified, that 100% electricity must be generated using wind and solar and stored in batteries for later use. This is coupled with an act of virtue signalling in 1999 that banned nuclear generation in Ireland that remains in force. Back in the 60s and 70s, nuclear power generation was actively being considered and developed for Ireland, after the Carnsore protest the topic became politically radioactive, not helped by the economic slump that lasted much of the '80s that defined the next decade. Even in 2026 our politicians won't touch the topic with a barge pole. It will take a combination of Grid failure, accelerating electricity prices and change of mind in Germany before the Irish establishment will concede nuclear is an option. It takes 10 years to get any major power plant built, so unlikely this side of 2040. In the meantime, as long as you can't see the cooling towers in Ireland , nuclear generated power from France (or the UK) via expensive inter-connectors is just fine.

    Now us consumers have problems, wind and solar generation are both unreliable, low density and low quality sources requiring more infrastructure to support them. When electricity demand is at its highest on long cold frosty nights, wind and solar totally disappear from the grid and themselves become consumers of electricity (snow covered or frost covered panels don't generate power and need heating elements to keep them frost free, The nacelles in wind turbines have air conditioning that draws power). Battery storage is use manage dips and rises in wind and solar production and used to handle demand peaks, they have insufficient storage and supply pipeline to operate for long are expensive and must be replaced after a decade. This 100% failure requires backup electricity generation source, which come in the form of burning gas & other oil based distillates. The inter-connectors to Britain connect us to generators that use gas, this generation until recently has been considered "carbon neutral" because it is imported.

    Needless to say, gross inefficiency in managing the current (sic) system has driven up the cost of electricity consumption and will continue to drive costs further upwards, this is a primary reason people people are installing solar panels to try and offset the cost hoping to make a payback on the installation costs over 5 to 6 years.

    Gas supply is becoming a problem, Corrib field is declining, Inishkea West should been it going a bit longer, since Ireland has no ports than can handle LNG our only other source is gas is via the Moffat line from Scotland which are sourced from the North sea and LNG terminals in Wales. Currently Irelands only gas reserves are whatever can be packed into the Moffat line. In the event of a gas emergency the electricity generators can switch over to burning diesel. Pay attention to what is happening in the North sea, over the past 30 years UK state administrations have been penalizing North sea production, as a consequence the UK are losing their chemical and refining industry, their steel processing is effectively gone. Ireland is almost completely dependent on the UK for Petrol and Diesel supplies. In the event of a winter season like 1962-63 we will experience fuel shortages, thankfully that does not happen often, It will again, bear in mind the population of both countries has grown massively since the '60s and how people in the UK & Ireland consume fuel has changed with more dependence on gas.

    The primary case for nuclear generation in Ireland is stable base-load power generation leading to stable electricity pricing, also if that is important to you, it is carbon neutral, with very little waste. If you are interested see.


    To power the government target 845,000 passenger electric vehicles (EVs) by 2030, along with additional targets for light goods vehicles, heavy goods vehicles, and buses we need a new 400 MW power station and a scaled up electricity distribution system. A target of 400,000 heat pumps assuming seasonal COP (Coefficient of Performance): ≈3 will need another 140 MW generation.

    There is another issue happening due to infrastructure bottlenecks that may not yet be visible on the surface, future capital investment in Ireland is not happening, being cancelled and existing assets are being sweated. It will probably show up in the employment numbers for 40 to 60 years olds over the next 5 years (20 to 30 year olds are migrating). Investments not being made today have consequences down the line.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 316 ✭✭tppytoppy


    I predict the breaking point for the grid will be when enough households can go off-grid that the standing charge for the remainder who are captive become intolerable. I saw a German YouTuber building his own solution with 15KWH battery for a little bit over 1200 euro. Panels are cheap, turnkey battery solutions will be cheap enough. What will happen then. The cynic in me assumes the large energy consumers will force consumption of electricity from fossils because they have already made it clear that they won't pay for a green grid.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,838 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Unlikely, The micro‑generation support scheme with the Clean Export Guarantee (CEG) pays households for surplus exports (plus SEAI grants), steering "prosumers" like the guy in the video to use the grid as a "battery" rather than disconnect from the grid. By June  this year , suppliers must offer dynamic pricing to households, shifting demand away from peak and rewarding flexible use, which in theory should be another lever to keep costs down without loading everything into a blunt standing charge, will they offer value, I remain skeptical.

    Most people cannot manage DIY batteries, there are regulations to comply with, insurance and warranty issues matter more. Already battery powered scooters and bikes are a safety concern, putting them in your attic. . . . I'd be wary, especially the cheap ones.

    May be a grain if truth in the case of large energy users.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 316 ✭✭tppytoppy


    You live on the assumption that they will pay you for what you export in the future.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 927 ✭✭✭bored65


    That’s a fairly weird argument to try to make

    By that line of thinking let’s say likes of Amazon can buy a plot of land anywhere they want and build energy chugging ai datacenters or likes of EDF can buy a large plot of land and build a few green and clean reactors…

    Tho I suspect somehow your understanding of how planning and zoning and legal system work would suddenly then a do a uturn



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,878 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Either the farmers approved the land for use with solar panels, or the didnt. Which is it?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 927 ✭✭✭bored65


    Ok I see you are either being deliberately obtuse or have a very basic, juvenile and bizzare view of our planning, zoning and legal systems

    Just because you have land and approve of building something on it does not mean that this construction can go ahead

    Even in the most MAGA libertarian depths of Texas it doesn’t work that way, never mind here in Ireland

    Especially when what you want to construct impacts on others in locality, be it lowering property prices, killing industries such as tourism and farming, creating fire and safety risks, polluting the locality and having infrastructure such as power lines and roads having to be build on other peoples land to connect your pet green project be it an Eiffel Tower sized turbine, a field of Chinese slave Labour and coal derived panels or a … fission reactor



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,878 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    As already stated, if your issue is with wind turbines being built in rural areas I already answered your question.

    Its cheaper and more cost effective to build them in rural locations and means they can be built at scale.

    I appreciate it is disruptive for the locals of course, yet they have to be built somewhere.

    If they are built rurally, their construction affects fewer people and costs less to build.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 927 ✭✭✭bored65


    Build them in Dublin bay (or mountains overlocking Dublin), you get 40% instead of 33% capacity factor in the bay, shallow seas unlike the scenic and much more violent west coast and right next to most of the demand this state has.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,878 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams




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