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Electric, Hydrogen & Hybrid Electric Buses in Ireland

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 690 ✭✭✭PlatformNine


    That is a fair point, but this is for a fraction of the number of chargers than what we are seeing in city depots. Planning permission is for just 20 chargers, and even then that I believe that the the current plan is only for ~10 buses to go to Sligo? It's not nothing so it still may need some gridwork, but I would hope with so few chargers it wouldn't be anything too difficult.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,857 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy


    If they could get the depot in Galway electrified then they could redirect some of the PAs being used there to DB that should get the average age of the fleet in Dublin down a far bit.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,443 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    I thought the PAs in Galway were meant to eventually transfer to do the BusConnects routes in Cork.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 690 ✭✭✭PlatformNine


    There is/was talk of Navan getting electric buses as well I believe.

    I don't believe there are any EAs to spare at the moment and I don't think the NTA can order anymore EAs as the model isn't being made anymore. For the buses we already have I think the 21 with BÉ are all needed for Sligo and Athlone town services and the 34 with DB for the O. I think any further electrification of town services may be on pause until a new framework is in place, but it's anyone's guess how long that could be.

    For now any future town or expanded services will use cascaded stock as between Sligo, Cork, and eventually Waterford there are a still quite a few buses that have plenty of life left (mostly WMs, WLs, and MCs). But I am still hoping they will have a new framework sooner than later.

    As previous comment says, they are meant to go to Cork in advance of it's full electrification and it's because Cork really needs the extra buses.

    Cork's electrification progress is a bit grim at the moment (at least compared to Dublin, Limerick, and Galway), and the BC network will put the depot/fleet in a bit of an odd spot for a good few years. Electrification of Capwell will only start once Tivoli is complete and operating (with PADs) and a second depot will be needed to replace the capacity added by Tivoli when it is closed in 2030. It's also possible that before Tivoli closes they will need to complete a third permanent depot (mentioned in the business case).

    Now that said, assuming Tivoli will close in 2030 and that all goes well with Cork electrification there will be 2/3 permanent fully electrified depots in 2030. That would mean the PADs will have at least 5 years left and could be cascaded elsewhere, and that could be Dublin to help phase out aging SGs (and at the current rate GTs too).



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,122 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    I suspect Tivoli will be retained well past 2030. I know it currently has only temporary planning permission, but that could be extended like happened with Docklands station. I know Tivoli is to be redeveloped as housing etc., however that is going to happen in phases over decades, it isn't going to be a quick process, so I wouldn't be surprised if that depot survives to at least 2040.

    I suspect this as the Tivoli depot is being built with the ducting and other supporting infrastructure required for electric chargers. It won't have chargers to start, but it will be ready for them. I don't think they would have bothered doing that had they truly believed it will last only 4 years.

    We will have to wait and see of course.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,857 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy


    Well the Jamestown Road was only supposed to be temporary and is now a permanent depot



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,443 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    I have been reading online that both ADL & Wrights had big launch events to unveil their new bus fleets to stakeholders & government officials either in their factories in Ballymena & Scarborough or from trade shows within the last few weeks. Did any officials from the NTA get invited to attend these events to try & find out what they want in their next framework agreements to get newer electric buses rolled out for the TFI fleet?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 690 ✭✭✭PlatformNine


    If they do end up putting in chargers at Tivoli I imagine it would be because they are making it a permanent depot. Though I do think that would be a good idea as they could then just avoid having to build a completely new third depot. However, getting planning permission may be tricky, and it would likely mean rebuilding some parts of the depot (or at least at some point in the long term).

    However, as difficult as that may be I still think that is better than having to try and find a location for a third depot. It would do wonders for Cork's electrification too and I think it would make electrifying the fleet before 2030 much easier. If they applied for planning permission for that this year as Capwell is being upgraded I would almost think it would be possible to be fully electrified for 2028 (assuming there aren't grid problems… which is optimistic). That also gives them a better buffer for getting Kinsale Rd built.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,122 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    The Gen 2 Electroliner looks very interesting, they have switched to CATL LFP batteries, with larger sizes, further ranges and can fully recharge in just 75 minutes. Sounds impressive.

    I'm curious will we start getting these gen 2 for the remainder of the 800 vehicle framework which we are roughly only half way through or will we be stuck with the gen 1's.

    I'm not sure how enthusiastic they are about new ADL's given the experience with the PA's and EA's, though perhaps that is unfair as they are an all new vehicle, even if they do use the same name.

    Interesting to note that both Wrights and ADL are now using CATL LFP powerpacks.

    While I definitely think it will last longer then 4 years, I'm not sure the owners of that land, the Port of Cork would be happy with that. They have big plans to turn the entire Tivoli docks into a massive new housing/office development. So I'd imagine that land is much more valuable to them as apartments then a bus depot.

    Having said that this development is expected to take 20+ years and happen in phases, so I don't think there is too much of a rush, maybe it could be kept to the last phase.

    Interestingly the Port of Cork is a semi-state that is "owned" by the Minister of Transport, so that could lead to interesting conversations! Perhaps they could do something clever like keep the depot, but develop the buildings over it.

    It will be an interesting to see what happens here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 690 ✭✭✭PlatformNine


    On the topic of charging capacity and the depots needed to support BEV networks, what is the deal with Limerick, Galway, and Waterford? Dublin is getting several new depots, a replacement depot for Conyngham, and the temporary Jamestown Rd depot. Cork is getting also getting 2 new depots and Tivoli temporary depot (or 1 new in addition to Tivoli if it's made permanent as discussed above).

    But what is the case with the other cities? I don't think much has been said about them beyond the current works and planning applications? Limerick now has 70 chargers at Roxboro and Galway (awaiting final planning permission) is also going to get 70, but is that going to be enough for BC rollout? Can their depots handle more buses and/or chargers? Or will they be looking at new depots sometime this decade too? Then there's also Waterford which there just seems to be so little information about. Maybe when Galway's been electrified they will start putting together more finalised plans for Waterford?



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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,122 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    While I can't say for certain, I believe Roxboro has spare capacity, which is why installing the chargers was straight forward, they could just move the buses around inside the depot. Also there seems to be lots of land next to it that I assume is owned by CIE/IR, which I'd presume they could expand into if need be.

    Similar with Galway, it is in the port and there is loads of unused land next to it. While I assume the Port of Galway owns that land, I'd assume it wouldn't be difficult for them to buy/rent some of it to expand into if need be.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 165 ✭✭AX636


    Seems that Harristown's EW'S are slowly coming into service,, 3 are out today



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,888 ✭✭✭john boye


    That's interesting, I was told last week they'd be in service this week but didn't believe it due to the grid issues.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 102 ✭✭hfjm20




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,830 ✭✭✭p_haugh


    Nothing new on bustimes yet from what I can see



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 102 ✭✭hfjm20


    Will any of the EW’s be used on the E2 do we know?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,857 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy


    Do they have USB type C charge points? Because the current USB chargers on buses are becoming increasingly obsolete.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 165 ✭✭AX636


    They won't be as they are not tracking yet, they where on the 27B



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,122 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Still USB-A AFAIR.

    I don't think USB-A is obsolete, but I do think it would be a good idea if they offered both A and C in the circle rather then two A's, would be an easy change.

    But then there is a whole conversation about what charging speed they actually deliver, I most test it some day, but the odd time I've used it, it seemed super slow. Like barely keep your phone running, never mind actually usefully charge the battery.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 165 ✭✭AX636


    I doubt it



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,443 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    Some of the EW's in Harristown have been doing runs on the 27b in the last few days.

    There's a video from Youtube to prove it. Not mine btw.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,830 ✭✭✭p_haugh


    According to the comments from the above video, they have USB-C ports (or at least EW252 does anyways)

    Screenshot_20260210-235300.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,830 ✭✭✭p_haugh


    Bustimes is now showing a new/unknown tracking id as tracking on the 27b as of this morning, presumably one of the new EWs?

    Screenshot_20260211-084013.png


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,122 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    I can confirm that the new EW25x have USB-C :) I just took a ride on EW256

    In the circle there is now one USB-C port and one USB-A, still just one circle per two seats.

    I did some limited testing, though note my USB tester couldn't detected the capabilities of the port which is odd, but I did some testing with the iPhone, but it had 65% battery so higher speeds might be possible on a device with lower battery.

    On the USB-C port I say 12.5W, which is nice.

    On the USB-A port I saw 7.5W, however note this is the max an iPhone draws on a USB-A to USB-C cables, so Android potentially could draw more.

    On a SG on the way back I saw 7W on the USB-A to USB-C port.

    I'd take the above results as preliminary, I'd have to use a different device to confirm the results. I suspect the USB-C port can do up to 15W (5V x 3A). A nice increase on the USB-C port regardless.

    BTW There seems to be lots of new EW25x out on the 27B and they aren't all tracking on BusTimes. EW256 wasn't on bustimes and I think I saw another EW25x just ahead of it and on the way back I definitely saw EW252 going the other way, tracking as 7330 on bustimes.

    IMG_7837.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,443 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    I know that is a paywall article from the Irish Independent but my goodness; this story about Bus Éireann's operations in Galway is absolutely unbelievable to read in this day and age.

    Nearly 50 buses are lying idle because of a lack of charging points in their own depot. I have sympathy for the large amount of passengers that don't get on their buses on their commutes in Galway.

    They must be very angry as to why BÉ cannot get sufficient capacity available to get these electric buses batteries charged up in their own depot in a timely manner.

    I know the obvious solution here is to build more chargers. However is Bus Éireann actually capable to do that for their own passengers at this point in time or in the near future?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,627 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    10 EWs have entered into service in Harristown this week.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,888 ✭✭✭john boye


    This has to be a bot, no actual human could type like that



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,122 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    The most interesting piece of this article is this bit:

    “Further new single-deck battery-electric buses will be ordered by the NTA during 2026 in order to complete the transition of the Sligo town bus services operated by Bus Éireann to zero-emission.”

    So more single decker BEV buses to be ordered, it will be very interesting to see who wins the tender now that the BYD-ADL one is no longer an option. I’d imagine the Wrights one would be a strong contender.

    The issue in Galway appears to be Galway planning department taking almost a year to decide on the planning permission on a relatively straight forward job of installing new chargers!

    I have sympathy for the large amount of passengers that don't get on their buses on their commutes in Galway. 

    I don’t believe any passengers are being left behind! I believe these new BEV buses are just replacements for the old fleet, the old fleet continues to operate until they are replaced, so passengers aren’t really impacted. Not ideal of course, but not that serious either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 41,272 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Same in Dublin, buses that otherwise would have left the fleet by now being kept on until the chargers are in place.

    There may be ESB grid issues in Galway as well as planning.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra
    I'm raptured by the joy of it all



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,627 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    I believe that there are indeed grid issues in Galway too.

    As I posted before there were 200 buses in total in storage between the two operators.

    The Galway situation has knock on effects in Cork where the rollout of BusConnects is dependent on the cascade down of the PAD fleet from Galway.

    Post edited by LXFlyer on


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