Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

sprucemoose · 10-02-2026 01:40AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124222236#Comment_124222236

its not competition though? SP realistically did nothing to earn his place originally, remained as starter for the 6Ns when JC was in good club form and then continued as starter for the rest of the tournament, with JC playing much better after coming on in the first game and then not getting any minutes at 10 until the last game?

its not SPs fault and hes a good player obviously, but i wont blame JC if he has been put out by Farrell seemingly nailing his colours to SPs mast without him really earning it - especially after helping ireland to a 6Ns title and a series draw in SA

competition would be a fair fight for selection between the two players but it seems like its just going to be SP going forward for the majority of the time.

sprucemoose · 10-02-2026 01:40AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124222152#Comment_124222152

not sure if you meant to reply to my post or not

Ardillaun · 10-02-2026 03:44AM

Anything to this tricolour strategy? I would say SA etc. do something like this:

https://www.planetrugby.com/news/analysis-how-frances-devastating-le-principe-tricolore-made-ireland-look-pedestrian

MangleBadger · 10-02-2026 05:10AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124222162#Comment_124222162

No team is going to be rotating down to 4th and 5th choice in the position.

MangleBadger · 10-02-2026 05:12AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124221974#Comment_124221974

So we are just ignoring all the panel experts who explained that Prendergast was doing the right thing in that situation as he was responsible for the outside man?

sydthebeat · 10-02-2026 08:35AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124222297#Comment_124222297

Most teams down to u16s would have a zonal system on the pitch. Some have traffic light (red orange green) and the French ones in the article is just a version of that

Some would have 4 zones (own 22, 22 to half way, half way to opp 22, inside opp 22) and would have certain principles in each zone. These could be red, orange, green, blue zones. These systems are more important and significant when you have players with the ability to kick long.

For example in your red zone you might emphasise kicking long for touch as your main strategy (exiting). In the orange zone it might be kicking for contestable or strike plays off midfield rucks etc. Green zone could be for emphasizing coast to coast systems and blue could focus on forward hard carrying in order to set up back strike moves.

CONSI · 10-02-2026 08:40AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124221764#Comment_124221764

Whats Lowe shown this season that gets him back in, everyone is pretty much saying he's lost a yard of pace. I'd prefer to leave stockdale ont he wing and play crowley at 15

sydthebeat · 10-02-2026 08:48AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124222366#Comment_124222366

Because the point of dropping players due to lack of form is to get a response from them. That's literally what competition for places entails.

Stockdale had a poor game last weekend. Do you reward that with another start or do you bring in a player you dropped for Stockdale in the first place?

I can't see crowley ever being our starting 15 unless we have torrid injury crisis there. He covers 10, 12 and 15 to a decent level so he's a great bench option.

Farrell could start Crowley at 10 like he did last year in Rome, that wouldn't be beyond the realms of possibility, but if Crowley had another performance like he did in that game that would damage his chances for the rest of this competition.

almostover · 10-02-2026 09:05AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124222372#Comment_124222372

His performance last year in Rome was good. He played well with ball on and and defended well. His goal kicking was shocking however and it left Italy with a chance. We're currently lacking a reliable goalkicker too in the squad which leaves us vulnerable in tight games.

On that point, what has Doak's goalkicking been like this season? If its good it makes him a very viable option at 9 seeing as our 10s have their issues with that part of the game.

Former Former Former · 10-02-2026 09:13AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124222253#Comment_124222253

competition would be a fair fight for selection between the two players

Of course it's a fair fight. You just don't like the outcome so far. This idea that Prendergast is the chosen one is nonsense.

All these ridiculous conspiracy theories about Farrell completely overlook the fact that Crowley started the first two Autumn internationals, three months ago. It wasn't his fault we lost in Chicago but across the two games he started, it's fair to say he didn't really press his claim.

especially after helping ireland to a 6Ns title and a series draw in SA

If people want to really think about Crowley's progress through the pecking order, the SA tour is a good place to start.

He played 80 minutes of the first test, which we lost, but he played OK.

But in the second test, with the game in the balance, he came off and Frawley came on. Now, if there's one thing we know about Farrell, it's that he does not replace his trusted half-backs very often in big games. But in this instance, he did, and he replaced Crowley with a guy who isn't really an out-half, and we won the match.

And of course, there was an uncapped out-half prospect sitting in the stands watching it, who'd been training with the squad on tour.

Going from playing every minute in the 2024 6N to being substituted at a crucial time in the summer series was not a good omen. Fast forward a few months and both Crowley and then Frawley had a poor start to the November 2024, in comes Prendergast and here we are.

This did not happen overnight.

its not competition though?

it absolutely is, and it's great for both players, and Ireland.

I'd say Crowley would be embarrassed by the excuses being made for him on here.

sydthebeat · 10-02-2026 09:19AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124222390#Comment_124222390

I'm not going to argue over subjectives, but I was in Rome for that game and unfortunately crowley did not sieze his opportunity that day. Regardless of the missed conversations, his general play reflected the general commentary around him as a ten. Great individual physical moments but lacked ability to control the game and structure the attack. Can Ireland afford another 25% conversation rate on Saturday?? I doubt it.

almostover · 10-02-2026 09:44AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124222398#Comment_124222398

No team can afford a 25% conversion rate from the tee. That point is not up for debate.

Same way we couldn't afford all the missed tackles vs. France last week.

A lot going on with this team currently that can't be afforded. Hard to know what the answer is.

We need a reliable goal kicker, that's for sure. Who that is remains to be seen. Neither of the 2 main protagonists seems to be very good off the tee. Hence my question on Doak. He compares very favourably to our 10s from the tee so maybe he should be explored as an option at SH? Below are each players stats from combined URC and European Cup games.

Doak: 79%, 30/38 kicks.

Byrne: 75%, 33/44 kicks.

Crowley: 72%, 36/50 kicks.

Prendergast: 71%, 24/34 kicks.

phog · 10-02-2026 09:51AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124222428#Comment_124222428

You'd get the feeling that Sam was tearing up trees in his games and that Jack is dragging the team down the way some are posting about the two players here. The fact of the matter is neither are really laying claim to the jersey but because Sam has a higher ceiling so he's the preferred choice. Which is fair enough but is Andy putting too much stock on ceilings and ignoring some less than average performances from Sam?

awec · 10-02-2026 09:56AM

This Crowley v Prendergast battle between Leinster and Munster fans is like two bald men arguing over a comb. They are both fairly mediocre 10s at test level. If you were to rate the 10s in the 6 nations you'd find our lads on the list quicker if you started looking at the bottom rather than at the top.

Neither of them have done much to seize any opportunity. Crowley didn't set the world on fire in his chances. Prendergast is definitely not setting it on fire right now, he's not in the team because he's showing form, but because he's deemed to have a higher potential and we're hoping he eventually turns good.

Does Prendergast's form merit continued selection? Obviously not, but he's lucky that there is literally nobody out there whose form and talent does merit a go. Has Prendergast been better than Crowley? Probably, but it's pretty marginal.

You can argue it's not fair that Prendergast suffers little consequence for fairly average performances but life isn't fair. I'd be looking at Harry Byrne at this stage but I don't see Farrell parachuting him into the team.

Former Former Former · 10-02-2026 10:31AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124222444#Comment_124222444

This Crowley v Prendergast battle between Leinster and Munster fans

Some of us are Ireland fans.

They are both fairly mediocre 10s at test level.

Agreed, but if you read the thread, no one is arguing that either player is world class. The current discussion is about whether one mediocre player is getting badly treated while the other mediocre player gets preferential treatment. As an Ireland fan (who is admittedly more positive about our coach than others) I don't think that's a particularly fair position.

CONSI · 10-02-2026 10:45AM

I watch a lot of rugby, have played a lot of rugby, coached a lot of rugby and I'm at a loss as to what exactly this higher ceiling is that everyone says prendergast has. He's an excellent kicker out of hand, not as good from the tee. I wont get into the debate on his defence, commentators askig how we can hide him in the backline doesnt fill anyone with confidence that his defence is being worked on, and yes I know a lot of teams will "protect" their 10's in defence, but enough said that its needs improving, but I'm just not seeing how he drives our attack, he doesnt challenge the opposition line in attack, he seems to default to the wrap around, not sure if thats sextons fingerprints, but he isnt bringing anything special that I can see to the game, he seems to get picked off for an intercept most games….so whats the ceiling everyone speaks about, genuine question, and is it the gameplan thats not getting the best from Prendergast.

aloooof · 10-02-2026 11:02AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124222511#Comment_124222511

Some of us are Ireland fans.

Starts the post with the implication that some on here aren't Ireland fans.

Ends the post with "I don't think that's a particularly fair position".

Irony.

phog · 10-02-2026 11:07AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124222553#Comment_124222553

The kick long gameplan certainly isn't doing Sam justice and against a team like France it may even hamper his successful tackle stats, though, the one from a the 5m scrum doesn't cover him in glory either.

MangleBadger · 10-02-2026 11:27AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124222623#Comment_124222623

You mean the one from a 5m scrum where it was TOB that missed the tackle and Sam was running to cover the outside player ? That one?

MangleBadger · 10-02-2026 11:30AM

He creates more line breaks than the alternatives.

His passing ability is better.

His kicking for contestables is better.

His line kicking is better.

He doesn't often get stuck at the bottom of the ruck.

His goal kicking is broadly similar to his competition.

awec · 10-02-2026 11:30AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124222511#Comment_124222511

Prendergast is staying in the team despite his performances, not because of his performances.

I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest he's getting preferential treatment. He has been backed to the hilt in the hope that there is bright future ahead of him, but it's just that, hope. I cannot remember another player who has been given so long. In Prendergast's defence, circumstances are somewhat dictating it.

sydthebeat · 10-02-2026 11:33AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124222693#Comment_124222693

Those circumstances being the lack of form / ability of the alternatives.

If prendergast is so sh!t it doesn't say much to the alternatives for not being able to oust him.

Crowley byrne and frawley are all young enough to be very valid options for the next RWC, yet none of them can get past prendergast by demanding the jersey. What does that tell you??

Podge_irl · 10-02-2026 11:38AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124222693#Comment_124222693

I dunno, I think it is just a case that it seems like preferential treatment as we are not used to having such poor options at a position. I think he keeps the jersey cause he is the best 10 and when others do get a chance they don't show that to be incorrect. Our best 10 just isn't great at the moment.

bingobango12 · 10-02-2026 11:48AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124222553#Comment_124222553

Better passer, kicker from hands, playmaker, spots space for teammates, but is also 3/4 years younger which is why he would have a higher ceiling.

His negatives, far worse defender than the other 2, worse place kicker than Byrne, on par with Crowley, probably not as much of a carry himself threat due to his slightness.

All in all I think it is fair to say he has a higher ceiling. If he reaches that who knows, but he has the ability to be a top class 10 in the future, the other 2 likely don't.

As others have said above though, as it stands, we currently have 3 10s that are all pretty on par with each other, and non of whom currently top class.

Former Former Former · 10-02-2026 11:50AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124222693#Comment_124222693

Prendergast is staying in the team despite his performances, not because of his performances.

This reads like you're countering my argument that Prendergast's performances have been great. I didn't make that argument.

Prendergast might well be on the bench come Saturday, but if he's starting, it will be a combination of his performances and the absence of a clearly better alternative. You can make the same argument for a lot of players at the moment. It doesn't matter how bad a player is, only if he's the best we have in a given position.

The fact that Harry Byrne is in the conversation at all is proof enough that we're fishing in a shallow pond at the moment. There is no possible selection at 10, Crowley included, that is not based on hope.

I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest he's getting preferential treatment.

Fair enough, if your definition of 'preferential treatment' is backing a talented but flawed young player over a less talented but less obviously risky player, then that's OK. It seems to be the non-conservative selection tactics that people are constantly looking for here, but fair enough.

What I objected to - and this was blindingly obvious in my posts - was the assertion that Prendergast is getting preferential treatment because it's not a fair competition, Farrell is backing him regardless of Crowley's good performances and there was no reason to bring Prendergast in, all of which have been claimed above.

I think those arguments are very unreasonable, but again, we are all coming at this from very different perspectives on Farrell.

aloooof · 10-02-2026 11:58AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124222718#Comment_124222718

But the point is, when Prendergast gets a chance, you'd be hard pushed to argue that he's showing it to be the correct decision, either.

aloooof · 10-02-2026 12:03PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124222759#Comment_124222759

I think the point is that Crowley had to put in some excellent performances earlier in the year, culminating in the absolutely brilliant performance vs Leinster to force Farrell's hand for selection in the AI's.

Prendergast isn't having to put in near the same performances to get the jersey back.

Fwiw, I think Crowley suffers from his versatility; we've often heard ROG speak about needing to play 10 week-in, week-out and see those pictures in front of you that are different from 12 or 15.

Sam is benefitting from the fact he can only really play 10.

awec · 10-02-2026 12:05PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124222706#Comment_124222706

If prendergast is so sh!t it doesn't say much to the alternatives for not being able to oust him.

I 100% agree.

If you look back the past 10-15 years in Irish rugby, and totally exclude Sexton from the equation, there are still 3 or 4 out halves who were never more than backup players who are better than all of the options available to us right now.

thamus doku · 10-02-2026 12:07PM

good to see that it is being discussed by the media that Ireland might need a fifth club, we might have to allow foreign based players and how can the academies be improved so we are producing top players for Ireland not just producing players for the provinces.

All these things should be discussed and be on the table , but unfortunately there is a very large elephant in the room who will trample anyone who even wants to discuss these options.

Regardless, they need to be and will be in due course. The IRFU will have no other choice.

slowway20206 · 10-02-2026 12:07PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124222804#Comment_124222804

ROG also said Crowley plays 10 like a 12.

Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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