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General British politics discussion thread

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,923 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Your Party are wasting donor's money through incompetence and being a waste of time which kind of sums Corbyn up.

    Is accidental grifting still grifting?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,376 ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,537 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    The man has done more to fight against antisemitism and all forms of racism than you'll ever manage. He was out fighting the likes of the National Front before many on here were even born.

    He's probably now wondering what the point of it all was now that he's undone by lies from both within his own party and front the right wing and their client press, who now cynically parade around pretending to be friends of the Jews when it's that side of the political aisle that despises them the most.

    Corbyn lost not because he's a "bad" politician, or antisemitic or any other bullshit. He lost because of an orchestrated campaign of lies about him and the PLP that tried to make them out to be a bunch of rabid antisemites to a man. A campaign he had no way of fighting successfully, no matter what he did.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,537 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    The man's been continually elected to Islington North for 42 years. You don't get to do that if you're incompetent or a grifter. Irrespective of the failure of Your Party, and most would consider it a bad move, calling him incompetent or a grifter is just stupid.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,993 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    I think claiming the vetting process itself needs an overhaul is complete BS. It is doubtful that Peter Mandleson would pass the modern HOLAC vetting (payments to close relatives are one of the first thing vetting looks into) but ultimately the PM has the power of override and it looks like that's what Starmer did.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,085 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    He lost to Theresa May and Boris Johnson in the midst of the Brexit fiasco. He lost because he is a dreadful politician and a terrible party leader.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,916 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Poly Tonybee would be a classic pro centre Labour journalist. Her Guardian piece here, indicates it's all about being brave. Many of the things to be done aren't about finance, reform the voting system and the House of Lords would indicate a fresh start. But I don't see that happening under Starmer.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2026/feb/08/morgan-mcsweeney-keir-starmer-cabinet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,376 ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    It won't happen under Starmer and it won't happen under the next Labour/Tory/Reform leader either.

    We're locked into a trap of seeking economic growth without doing the work to make it sustainable. Nobody wants to build houses, upgrade infrastructure or tackle the looming pensions disaster because it involves tough political choices. Look at what happened when Starmer closed tax loopholes for large amounts of land and private school fees. In some regards, this is not a serious country.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,916 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Every political leader has that problem. When elected make the tough decisions early. Hit the ground running. Starmer/Reeves simply got the Inheritance Tax wrong in catching ordinary farmers in the net. Should have looked at the Irish model. Look also at our use of Citizens Assemblies to inform change.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,085 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    They really, really didn't catch "ordinary" farmers in the net though. They brought it from something like 1% of farms to 5% of farms that would fall in the inheritance tax net.

    Their problem, as it has been consistently, is that they were massive cowards who took the flak and then eventually backed down when all the political damage was done. Worst of all worlds stuff.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,291 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Who do you actually define as an 'ordinary farmer'?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,923 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    I called him incompetent and stand by that. Grifter depends on your POV as to what qualifies.

    He has and is wasting lots of donor's money on lofty promises and ideals that he consistently fails to implement.

    Islington constantly voting for him doesn't change that (many years under the Labour umbrella who held it since 1937), otherwise Michael Lowry is a paragon of virtue.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,376 ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Agreed. They threw away a once in a generation chance to significantly reform the system here, or at least one or two parts of it.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,537 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Stand by what you want.

    The man has achieved more than you will in two lifetimes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,537 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    You can keep saying crap like this, but he's genuinely one of the most honest and decent politicians in the UK regardless of how one feels about him, regardless of his failures.

    I would rather more people in politics like Jeremy Corbyn than the alternative.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,638 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Interesting take (from the BBC no less) on how Labour came to be taken over by the "blue" or conservative wing in the last decade or so - the baffling sight of a Labour party leadership being strongly pro-Israel can be explained by this as well.

    image.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,118 ✭✭✭✭zell12


    All the papers asking how long more..

    image.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,916 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Morgan McSweeney is totally FG in this country. UK Labour has gone very much to its right. That's not the answer to the Tories or Reforms march further right. Corbyn too was too far left, more akin to PBP here. Really, could never lead a pragmatic Govrn't. They need to be centrist and radical in equal measure.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,638 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    If they wanted to get away from the far left student politics of Corbyn, that was fine, but the pivot to the right by Starmer and McSweeney has been insane given the party's history and voting base - they are almost occupying the same space as both the Tories and Reform on some issues.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,537 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Irrespective of what positions Starmer's Labour hold, and frankly that seems to depend on what day it is, all I can say is that if Keir Hardie could see what the party has become under Starmer he'd be spinning in his grave like the Hadron Colider.

    Starmer's problem is that he's a legal mind and not a political one and that's no good for the situation he occupies. He approaches everything like it's a case to be won no matter how it's done. That's no use in politics.

    People can call Corbyn all the names they want and we'll never know what kind of a PM he would have made, but Starmer has actually been given a shot at the top job and he's proven to be bloody awful at it.

    Labour got taken over by people who wanted power above all else and were helped into it by stabbing others in the back. We can see what type of a shambles that leads to. I was delighted to see the end of the Tories when Starmer's Labour got in on the back of their implosion. But they've shown that their little better than the gang of twats that preceded them.

    "We're not the Tories" is a pretty low bar to be dining out on and they've run out of road on that one quite a while ago.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,638 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    I've seen Starmer described as "arrogant and inept". He's a very strange kettle of fish with his lack of background or interest in politics and only joining the Labour Party in his 50s - he could just as easily have joined the Conservatives.

    As you say, McSweeney did an excellent job of making the party electable and getting them into power, but they don't seem to stand for anything except being in government. It's little wonder they have been found out and are so unpopular.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,376 ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I don't think how far right or centrist they are matters all that much. Competence was a big part of the sell and I've seen little material improvement. I posted a thing from FullFact showing that they've made progress on various pledges but the underlying issue is how modest the pledges are.

    I bought into the whole moving right thing to cut off Reform at one point but it's since become patently obvious that Reform UK aren't going away any time soon and the policy is going to make reachable voters either stay at home or vote Lib Dem/Green.

    It's been a very poor government I have to say. McSweeney seems to be at the root of much of the problem.

    As an aside, the Origin Story podcast did a multi-parter on the history of Labour for their season on Socialism if anyone's interested.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,537 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Starmer's Labour were "electable" not because of anything they did, but because the Tories had reached (I would say went beyond) their nadir. Labour showed absolutely nothing that suggested that they were worthy of being elected to run the country. They said nothing and they did nothing. They just floated in in the wake of a Tory sinking ship. A sinking ship that took a long time to go down it has to be said.

    But now Starmer's Labour is in power and they look all at sea themselves.

    As for Keir Starmer being "arrogant and inept", I don't know. But he's certainly not a natural leader of a political party and that reality is being played out daily. One of the issues that many people had with him before he got into power was that nobody actually knew what it was that he stood for and, remarkably, that is still the case today. He's also a dreadful communicator and has real trouble getting any of his points across.

    I honestly cannot see him lasting out the year as leader. But there's that prick Streeting waiting in the wings and he's certainly no better.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,638 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Starmer also seems to be very slippery. Was a leading human rights lawyer and expert on international law, but somehow found himself defending the war crimes being carried out by Netanyahu, as it was politically expedient for him to do so.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 564 ✭✭✭midlander12


    He won't last the week let alone the year but it won't be Streeting that succeeds (too close to Mandelson for a start).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 564 ✭✭✭midlander12


    Correction……

    Will he last the day, let alone the week? Tim Allen has followed Morgan McSweeney this morning. And now 

    et tu Anas?

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/li ... 5588706cc1

    Scottish Labour leader Anas Sarwar expected to call for Starmer's resignation at 2.30pm press conference, BBC says
    Anas Sarwar, the Scottish Labour leader, is expected to call for Keir Starmer’s resignation at his press conference at 2.30pm, Glenn Campbell, BBC Scotland’s political editor, is reporting. Campbell says:

    Sarwar has hastily arranged a news conference in Glasgow … where he will set out his position on Keir Starmer’s leadership of the country and then of the Labour party.

    Senior figures in the Scottish party have been saying in recent days that their chances in May’s elections would be improved if Starmer left office.

    Sarwar would be the most senior Labour figures to call for Starmer’s resignation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,291 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Just to note that the election referred to above is for Scottish parliament in May



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,916 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Sarwar has opened the door, will others follow?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,291 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Has Sarwar been played? No one else coming through the door



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,916 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    I expect Starmer to last a little while more. The byelection and local elections may see him step aside for a reset by the party. This run IWT is the first foray.



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