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Cycle lane & pelican crossing right of way ?

  • 04-02-2026 03:43PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,401 ✭✭✭


    21106.jpg

    Ok.i just had an unseemly row with a taxi-ist over right of way here. While I was arguing another driver choked in against me.

    So.

    It's a common setup around Knocklyon now with roundabouts where as you approach on the primary route, exits 1 and 3 have pelican crossings. If you're on the cycle lane it takes you around the corner to the pelican crossing and when you cross you pick up the cycle lane again on the other side.

    Now I always presumed that walking OR cycling, I had the right of way. But am I wrong?

    The driver was saying that cos it's explicitly a pedestrian crossing then I have neither right of way nor right of use. But the cycle lane designer has guided me to this point of crossing.

    So WTF? Am I supposed to dismount? Cos if that's the case I'm done with the lane altogether and I'll just ride the road .



«13

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,642 ✭✭✭The Continental Op


    Interesting question? I'd say you should get off and walk across but I know that won't be a popular opinion. You have to ask yourself do you have a right away or a right to a quick death.

    My limited understanding is that cars stop for you if you are already crossing but don't have to otherwise until you are actually waiting at the edge of crossing. Are you expecting drivers to stop for cyclists who are yards back from the crossing and anticipate what they are going to do? I don't think you can expect have the right of way to sail across come what may.

    Wake me up when it's all over.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,679 ✭✭✭Viscount Aggro


    You are confusing this with a toucan crossing.... Cyclists can cross with pedestrians.

    Pelican crossing in Belfield... I almost got taken out, cycling across it



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,679 ✭✭✭Viscount Aggro


    NM.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 55,435 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i would very much be keen on what the local authority would answer were you to send the question to them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,401 ✭✭✭fat bloke


    Ok. So If go back onto the road I can approach the roundabout with full vehicular right of way over that same car to my left and can "sail across come what may".

    Why the hell should I use the lane anymore?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,978 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    You'd still have to be on the crossing to have the right of way even walking, so priority already ceded?

    fwiw one on my commute in, also directed on from the cycle path, and I assumed it applied to me on a bike to me walking to be honest. Most people driving seem to treat it that way too - and usually give way. I will be putting in a clarification request with the relevant local authority though…

    Irish Engineers, determined to do things better and different to countries with much higher levels of active travel.

    Taxi-ist will also give out about you taking the road when a "perfectly good" cycle lane already provided.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,978 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    You'd still have to be on the crossing to have the right of way even walking, so priority already ceded?

    fwiw one on my commute in, also directed on from the cycle path, and I assumed it applied to me on a bike to me walking to be honest. Most people driving seem to treat it that way too - and usually give way. I will be putting in a clarification request with the relevant local authority though…

    Irish Engineers, determined to do things better and different to countries with much higher levels of active travel.

    Taxi-ist will also give out about you taking the road when a "perfectly good" cycle lane already provided.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,089 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    It's a good and fair question. But one which, as a cyclist, I have too little time on this earth to bother worrying about. If you have to burn brain cells trying to figure out wtf you should be doing in any particular scenario on a cycle lane, that for me indicates that it's not fit for purpose (other than for kids going to school) and I won't be using it.

    Can you imagine if motorists had to deal with such conundrums every day… "this white line is broken, but the traffic sign is 20 metres further down, and if I'm turning left, and it's a bus lane, but if the traffic is backed up"… forget about it, majority will just do whatever suits them best in that moment and then wring their hands about the hard pressed motorist just trying to go about their day if pulled up on it.

    It's one set of standards for motorists and another set for everyone else.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,702 ✭✭✭highdef


    Looking at the photo, I see a zebra crossing, not a pelican crossing. Aside from that, are there any signs are markings on the cycle path on the approach to the zebra crossing, to suggest that it is a combined pedestrian/cycle zebra crossing? If not, then the zebra crossing is for pedestrians only and as such, cyclists should dismount to cross, turning into pedestrians in the process.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,702 ✭✭✭highdef


    Looking at the photo, I see a zebra crossing, not a pelican crossing. Aside from that, are there any signs are markings on the cycle path on the approach to the zebra crossing, to suggest that it is a combined pedestrian/cycle zebra crossing? If not, then the zebra crossing is for pedestrians only and as such, cyclists should dismount to cross, turning into pedestrians in the process.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 55,435 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    yep - just on that, a pelican crossing is a PEdestrian Light controlled crossing. one where the ped hits a light and waits for a green man to cross.

    either way, it's a stupid design in the photo above. those sort of cycle paths are often provided for schoolkids to use, be it on foot or on a bike and it'd be idiotic to expect them to know (or need to know) the difference.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,702 ✭✭✭highdef


    Looking at the photo, I see a zebra crossing, not a pelican crossing. Aside from that, are there any signs are markings on the cycle path on the approach to the zebra crossing, to suggest that it is a combined pedestrian/cycle zebra crossing? If not, then the zebra crossing is for pedestrians only and as such, cyclists should dismount to cross, turning into pedestrians in the process.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,972 ✭✭✭JayRoc


    Just use the road. Problem solved



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,709 ✭✭✭blackbox


    The photograph does not show a pelican crossing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,401 ✭✭✭fat bloke


    Well, not really. The cycling infrastructure in becoming more segregated and narrowing the traffic lanes has the effect of more aggressively funnelling bikes to where the engineers want them to go. That's fine if you're catered for properly but all too often the goal of the engineer seems to be to get bikes up and out of the way and then, once that has been established and it there's a crossing of vehicular traffic it's down tools and "fcuk ye, ye're on ye're own for this bit".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,401 ✭✭✭fat bloke




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,823 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Very few cycling lanes are mandatory. Partly for this reason.

    To often the cycling infrastructure was built to tick a box and use the budget. But not to be useful.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,206 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    It’s an interesting question.
    If an e scooter is in the cycle lane and scoots up the left hand side of a car, and then shoots across the front of the car using the pelican crossing, and the car has to jam on as the escooter wasn’t in the drivers eye line like a pedestrian would be- who is then at fault?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,531 ✭✭✭07Lapierre




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 228 ✭✭khamilton


    There used to be a 'painted' cycle lane leading to this roundabout. It was replaced with a wand-separated cycle lane that becomes a shared path leading to this crossing, a shared path after and then separates again later. The road has been significantly narrowed and taking the road will mean cars backing up behind you as you cycle up a hill and lead to far more aggression (and imho, danger).

    It's an SDCC special, they're uniquely bad at this compared to other Dublin CCs.

    This junction isn't compatible with the Cycle Design Manual, but I can't find anything to suggest cyclists can't cross by cycling at a zebra crossing.

    Most recent legislation (that enabled combined zebra crossings):

    image.png

    The latest traffic signs manual:

    image.png

    Curious what legislation requires a cyclist to dismount?

    Post edited by khamilton on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,823 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I assume its considered a "pedestrian only" crossing as such as foot path. As such you can't cycle on it.

    But any decent driver should give way to a pedestrian or cyclist. Anyone arguing about it is just being ass.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,401 ✭✭✭fat bloke


    Just taking the time to read that. - If my understanding of the "elephant footprint markings" is correct, then they are not present at the crossing I've photographed above. So it is not a shared cycle and pedestrian crossing, it is pedestrian only :(.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 228 ✭✭khamilton


    Good spot, I completely missed the lack of Elephant feet. Can you remember if the new crossings at Parklands Road have them?

    Still curious what legislation requires a cyclist to dismount, haven't come across it before!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,401 ✭✭✭fat bloke


    Hmmm, I'm not sure. I think that they don't have those markings at either roundabout. But the crossing after that again with Old court road is also different, and I have no idea who has priority. It could be cars for all I know. And still further on, I'd love to know what the fcukin engineers thought bikes were supposed to do at the Old Bawn junction. The shared walk/cycle path just ends at the pedestrian crossing at the filter left lane. I presume you're "supposed" to stop, dismount, beg for green to cross the filter lane. Beg again to cross the main road, and beg a third time to cross the other filter left lane, at which point you're rewarded with a half-arsed painted line on a non dished high kerbed footpath across the face of the pub. <sigh>



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 228 ✭✭khamilton


    Wait until you see what they're planning for the Scholarstown Road in the next part8:

    image.png image.png

    No cycle lane on the southern side of the road, and a shared path on either end of a single-way cycle lane (that itself is interrupted by a bus stop) on the northern side of the road.


    This on what's listed as a key orbital route for cycling in Dublin - and after they fucked up on Killininny Road and received negative feedback.


    SDCC are particularly inept and have shown they have zero interest in learning. What's worse, is that they're arrogant enough to implement bad designs that are worse than the status quo - and removes the possibility of ever implementing a good design in the future.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 45,378 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Can I just drive down Grafton Street in Dublin?

    erm, yes (between 06:00 & 11:00)

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,401 ✭✭✭fat bloke


    No bother. I'll be back on the road and will have right of way over you there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,978 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    Also a number of pelican crossings on my route also have a button, and light, for bikes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,401 ✭✭✭fat bloke


    I'm referring to the specific roundabout and pedestrian crossing being discussed in this thread. I'm sorry if it's confusing. I'll summarise briefly - the cycle lane leads the cyclist off the roundabout and directly to this pedestrian point of crossing, whereupon (I have learned) this specific type of crossing is not for cyclists - an engineering oversight I presume, or a couldn't-be-bothered. (You're not an SDCC road engineer yourself by any chance?), and therefore you (driving I presume) would have the right of way over me.

    Rather like leading a road to a bridge that doesn't facilitate cars, requiring the car user swim across to pick up the road again on the other side.

    What I was saying was that I would take the option of exiting the cycle lane before the roundabout and then I will have vehicular right of way over you if you are approaching the aforementioned crossing from my left.

    It's good to clear these things up. It can be difficult reading full threads on the ol' phone between traffic lights.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,642 ✭✭✭The Continental Op


    I'd argue that a cyclist that expects a driver to stop for him when he is still 10 meters back from the crossing is taking the piss.

    Wake me up when it's all over.



This discussion has been closed.
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