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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,987 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    Furlong sitting out training currently.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,949 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    maybe so! The good news just keeps coming: Furlong didnt train today.

    He's still 'doing some rehab' and is 'going through his process'. At least its his other calf. Bealham, Clarkson and O'Toole all trained.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 326 ✭✭Rayray98


    As long as it’s not a piss take like the last 6N where we spent the whole tournament claiming “oh, he might play this weekend” just so he could play against Italy…


    If it’s his other calf I wouldn’t be as concerned. Realistically for players like Furlong at this stage it’s all just about managing him, all that matters is he’s fit and ready for next week.


    The frustrating part is I pretty much have to read every report that the IRFU post in order to get a read on things as the likes of “Rud” and co are so invested in the “sensationalism” doom and gloom with everything that it’s impossible to actually get any clarify anymore….



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,281 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    It's not totally irrelevant - referencing him repeatedly as a "spectator" is plainly nonsensical, he absolutely had a right to be out on the pitch. He didn't handle the situation well and it reflected poorly on him, but he recognised that pretty quickly, apologised on the day, in the week immediately afterwards, and was contrite at the hearing.

    It is directly comparable to the other situations here - Mack Hansen was in a press conference well after the game and his remarks went way way further than what Sexton was found guilty of.

    Bundee had lost the head and the composure on Saturday evening even before he got on the field, and then was warned multiple times by the referee during the game. The fact he then engaged multiple times after the final whistle is also pretty outrageous.

    I'm not the one though trying to absolve Sexton of anything here; I'm condemning him for what he did, but the notion that Hansen or Aki are deserving of any less criticism at all for their actions is utterly ridiculous.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,534 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    Is Furlong actually that good anymore? He’s a lot of credit banked but I can’t remember the last time he put a run of good performances together (he was decent in the Lions tests but didn’t exactly stand out either and seemed to put everything into getting himself ready for those games). Lots of parallels with the end of SOB’s career (was the last good run he put together the Lions 2017 tour?).



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 326 ✭✭Rayray98


    Is he as good as he was at his peak best? - No

    Is he still a top class TH prop? - Yes



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,539 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Absolutely this. While he had an AAA Badge it certainly wasn't granted so he could have a go a the officials.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,949 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    IRFU do leave themselves open to "sensationalism", or at least speculation. You cant trust much of what they say when it comes to injury 'news'.

    I think Clarkson should start anyway. Regardless of Furlong 'going through his process'.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,966 ✭✭✭almostover


    I hate to say it but it looks like his career is very much in its twilight. He just can't stay fit for any decent period of time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 326 ✭✭Rayray98


    I do agree with that, I still can’t remember the last time player was a “doubt” in the weekly update actually pulling through and playing.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,291 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Clarkson has been really good this season. I’d be starting him and making Furlong a bench player when he’s available at this stage



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 903 ✭✭✭HanShotFirst


    Started 9 consecutive test matches for the Lions. Which is incredible. Aren’t Ireland so lucky?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,708 ✭✭✭ersatz


    You could see Furlong come back to fitness but definitely the twilight of his incredible career. The periods between injuries seem to be getting shorter and short and, as with a lot of props, the lower leg stuff seems to recur again and again. These guy's calves and ankles suffer an inhuman amount of punishment.

    One guy I've been impressed by this season who didn't get named is Charlie Tector. Someone else mentioned that his time playing and training with Jordie might have helped him get to another level but whatever the reason he seems to be doing a lot of things incredibly well. If he keeps it up he can't be far away from being in the '27 conversation at 12.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 208 ✭✭longjohn200




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,291 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Well he’s getting picked ahead of Bundee Aki at Connacht. So if Forde’s not international quality then neither is Bundee.

    In all seriousness though Forde is a serious player who should really be capped by now



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 850 ✭✭✭ShineyShiney


    I'd say Forde is bang on target. Getting the starting spot for the A's would be good recognition and puts him in the wc pot depending on the wider form of a bunch of players.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,029 ✭✭✭johnh6767


    I would say that applies to many and Farrell made that clear in an interview I saw recently where he emphasised that very point about just how important the XV game is this year



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,291 ✭✭✭TRC10


    I’m not sure. I think between games against Fiji, Italy, Wales, Japan, Georgia and Portugal, there’s been plenty of opportunities to cap him over the last few years. It’s hard to say his performances haven’t warranted it. Connacht haven’t been afraid to play him ahead of Bundee.



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,284 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Forde has already seen action in green, lining out in the center against the pumas for emerging Ireland

    He is on the coaches radar and I expect to see him named against England A



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,966 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Why should he start ahead of Bealham whose been excellent anytime he's given time on the field? Bealham played great on the Lions tour and every time we've seem him in a green jersey.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,012 ✭✭✭antfin


    Because Bealham is 36 at the next RWC and Furlong is likely to be retired before then so we need to build experience before 2027!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 326 ✭✭Rayray98


    For the France game I could honestly see Bealham being picked at 17 so he can cover LH.

    I think starting LH is a complete crap shoot as honestly, I could see Farrell just saying “phuck it” and going with Bohan if he doesn’t see the other two as viable options going forward.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,966 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    And how do you know he won't be playing at the same level then. He's shown no sign that he's slowing down.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 326 ✭✭Rayray98


    This process people have of just cutting players because of what age they’ll be in 2027 is very tiresome, SA don’t do it and their the only recent evidence of what can win you a RWC so why should we do any different?

    I’m all for cutting players who are proven to be past it, which is why I advocate for moving on Aki for instance, but older players who are still producing the goods should be kept as their experience is invaluable.


    The only sides that I can remember in recent times who binned players just so they could build for the RWC were England in 2012-2015 and France 2020-2023…both ended in failure. The media do a good job at making the idea sound very appealing because in their eyes there is only one outcome possible and that is a good outcome, rarely is the possibility of this failing ever considered, but when you dig a little deeper you realise it’s actually a fruitless exercise most of the time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,987 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    Its not about cutting Bealham. There's far more value in starting Clarkson now with the RWC in mind because Furlong keeps getting calf injuries and Bealham is 34. Retirement isn't too far away for both .

    Look at our LHP issues having played Porter for 70 minutes most games and giving Healy 10 Minutes for the last 4 years.

    South Africa don't do it because they have about 10 guys on both sides of the scrum who they can call on at any given time who range from locking out a scrum at worst to totally destroying their opposite number at best.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 208 ✭✭longjohn200


    I think there is a momentum around Clarkson. Has looked good lately. Bealham looked below standard any games I watched him play



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 326 ✭✭Rayray98


    I get that and would be all for giving Clarkson game time with the RWC in mind, however, this should only be in games such as Wales and Italy.

    In the big games, if Clarkson wants game time he should have to prove he’s a better option than those older players. Some might think that’s conservative but trust me, he’ll gain far more out of it in the long run if he has to earn his position and fight for it than if the coach just hands it to him because he’s younger. Correction, retirement “might” not be too far away, while they are still performing at a high level they should be retained.


    Healy was where we f’cked up on, he should have been retired after the RWC, there is nothing he’s done in the previous 6N that one of the younger props couldn’t have done. That was a case where the younger player was clearly out performing him and therefore should have been backed at LHP. I actually think we did a good job in this regard in the autumn where Paddy was given decent game time and Porter wasn’t completely flogged, then ofcourse they both got injured!


    Having 10 guys they can call on if anything just further proves my point, they have all these options yet still back the older players, why? Because experience is very important, more so than youth exuberance. England & France’s performance at the previous WC with big player pools shows just backing kids doesn’t actually work, backing experience does*.

    *provides they are in-form.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,708 ✭✭✭ersatz


    Yeah, a quick search shows SA have used 14 different front row forwards between 2023 and 2025, more than half of them household names. You can do whatever you want with that sort of depth. France have used even more, around 17 players. Ireland used 8. when you have lads who are less likely to make the World Cup as in the Irish set up it’s a far more critical problem.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,987 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    Nah. He won't gain anything from not playing when it really matters

    Clarkson has been doing very well in the Champions Cup so has earned it. He needs meaningful gametime against top tier opponents with Ireland now.

    Bealham is a known quantity. We wont develop depth unless we give these guys meaningful time when it matters.

    Likewise with Edogbo, Casey, Postlewaithe, Z Ward, Osborne etc.

    Osborne, postlewaithe needs time in the midfield because I dont think Aki and possibly henshaw will make it to RWC 2027.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,987 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    And irelands 8 include an injury prone Furlong, Bealham who is 34, Cian Healy which was pointless and Porter playing 70+ minutes far too often.

    Ireland other problems is Gus McCarthy is behind Sheehan and Kelleher at leinster. Hopefully tom Stewart sees some gametime in 6n



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