Orange is the new Burke

L1011 · 22-01-2026 12:32PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124169985#Comment_124169985

It is just as plausible that the Department has the wrong end of the stick legally.

But its also about as relevant to Burkes imprisonment as what colour jocks he had on the day he accosted the principal, or the day he first broke the court order to stay away.

Paddigol · 22-01-2026 01:22PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124168587#Comment_124168587

Is that a euphemism I see there Father, or are you just happy to see us?

goldsparkle · 22-01-2026 01:37PM

I don't have the energy for those thread anymore. EB is a vile man and I hope he stays in prison until he purges his contempt. If that's never, so be it. He can't be ignoring court orders and making a mockery of the courts and misrepresenting his situation time and time and time again.

CramCycle · 22-01-2026 02:30PM

It is a pity in hindsight the principal from the original incident didn't just go to the Gardai and press for assault charges, as it more than met the threshold. He could have faced 6 months. If found guilty, even if no jail time was given, it would have also added substantial weight to a disciplinary / dismissal procedure.

Grayson · 22-01-2026 04:17PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124170043#Comment_124170043

I've always felt that there was a legal argument that needed to be clarified here. If a teacher is instructed to do something that they consider immoral, what are their options.

Should a teacher address a trans student by their new name/pronoun? Should a teacher in a religious school be forced to tell a gay student that God hates gayness?

I personally would go with what is best for the student and that should be probably be dictated by departmental guidelines so that schools don't have any uncertainty. But if the department makes those guidelines, would they still be legal or would legislation need to be brought in to support them?

Enoch would still be in the same situation because he went nuts shouting at the principal. But if he'd followed proper procedures and brought it before the courts after he'd exhausted internal processes, what would the outcome have been?

NIMAN · 22-01-2026 04:22PM

Many teachers are taking RE classes when they are atheist.

Perhaps they realise they'll lose if they decide to take a stand and say, "I'm not teaching the children that nonsense".

It wouldn't have killed EB to say "whatever" when all the teachers were told about the trans child at their school. By all accounts, he didnt even teach the child in question, so he made a lot of trouble in his life for his principles.

Westernview · 22-01-2026 04:29PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124170720#Comment_124170720

He didnt make any trouble in his life for his principles. His principles and beliefs were not infringed upon. He made a lot of trouble for himself by verbally attacking the school principal and then ignoring the court orders. His principles remain unaffected.

Seth Brundle · 22-01-2026 04:32PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124170704#Comment_124170704

I've always felt that there was a legal argument that needed to be clarified here. If a teacher is instructed to do something that they consider immoral, what are their options.

I've no idea what is written into a teachers contract. However, asking that a child be referred to as they or whatever isn't immoral. The only reason someone might object to doing that is because they are a c**t and they'd be a double c**t if they objected even though they had no interactions with the child!

Should a teacher address a trans student by their new name/pronoun? Should a teacher in a religious school be forced to tell a gay student that God hates gayness?

But teachers aren't told that God hates gayness so it's a moot point.

I personally would go with what is best for the student and that should be probably be dictated by departmental guidelines so that schools don't have any uncertainty. But if the department makes those guidelines, would they still be legal or would legislation need to be brought in to support them?

I assume that guidelines aren't mandatory.
None of this gender stuff requires new laws - it just needs adults to not behave badly towards other people (especially children).

Enoch would still be in the same situation because he went nuts shouting at the principal. But if he'd followed proper procedures and brought it before the courts after he'd exhausted internal processes, what would the outcome have been?

Had Enoch acted like a grown-up then I would assume that the principal would say that his objection was noted but as Burke didn't have direct interactions with the kid, it wouldn't have really mattered.
But Burke decided not behave like a grown up and he managed to lose his job and spend over 500 days in a prison cell - all of which was a conscious and deliberate choice by Burke.
As per my first paragraph above, he decided be a c**t and it got him absolutely nowhere!

NIMAN · 22-01-2026 04:33PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124170742#Comment_124170742

Well he obviously was of the belief, "I'm not going to be a teacher in this school and let some child walk around in here identify as the opposite sex".

Otherwise he would have said nothing. He believes this isn't an acceptable practice and so he did stick to his principles for the ruination of his career.

kneemos · 22-01-2026 04:36PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124170704#Comment_124170704

I'd imagine the school can make their own guidelines that aren't against the Departments rules. Like it or lump it.

Westernview · 22-01-2026 04:41PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124170756#Comment_124170756

A belief is something you believe in your mind. Objecting to the child's orientation and shouting at your superior in public isnt a belief. He has the same beliefs now as he did before the event. If he stayed in the school and didnt engage with the student his principles would be the same. You are suggesting that he had to take the action im order to stick to his principles. He didnt.

Grayson · 22-01-2026 04:44PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124170751#Comment_124170751

I went to a catholic school where were told that gay sex was immoral and you'd go to hell if you did it.

My point is that if I were a teacher in that school, I would have strong objections to saying that. However, legally would I be able to refuse that? It's a catholic school. they have their "Ethos". The converse could also be true. Should a teacher be allowed to say that gayness is wrong?

I think there should be rules to protect students. But I'm not sure how the law stands on this kind of thing.

Like I said, if Enoch hadn't done an Enoch, this might have resulted in a court case about what teachers are allowed do and what they must do. But because Enoch is the way he is, this is a case about a teacher shouting at a principal and breaking court orders.

BK5 · 22-01-2026 04:49PM

We know a few of the more well known Burke children at this stage from their various appearances in the courts and other events. Surely no employer in their right mind is going to give any of the younger ones a job no matter how well educated or qualified for a role?

They have proven to be ticking time bombs. Enoch went years in a teaching job before ruining his career. The older 2 or 3 who don't get involved probably will get away with it, but the other 7 or 8?

Well done Mammy and Daddy Burke on ruining so many of your kids lives.

Seth Brundle · 22-01-2026 04:49PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124170794#Comment_124170794

My understanding is that the old diktat no longer applies. God now likes gays as long as they are celibate.
So schools no longer condemn gayness. Any teacher who does is saying that off their own bat.

dulpit · 22-01-2026 04:50PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124170794#Comment_124170794

I went to a catholic primary and secondary school (did leaving way back in 2004) and we were never told that. So if a school is saying that, it's a clear choice they have made and teachers should push back.

knucklehead6 · 22-01-2026 06:04PM

it’s been said multiple times in this thread. Had Burke behaved like a civilised member of society then a grown up adult debate would have been had in this country and a reasonable decision possibly reached, but with guidance.

But he didn’t behave like a civilised member of society.

So to myself and everyone else making the same point, however logical and reasonable you are being, there is only one real response. If my auntie had balls etc…

Hotblack Desiato · 22-01-2026 06:15PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124170720#Comment_124170720

The funny thing is that apparently Enoch did say "whatever" on this issue before, because the child in question this time is not the first trans child at Wilson's. It seems that that slipped under the mammy's radar.

Hotblack Desiato · 22-01-2026 06:19PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124170819#Comment_124170819

It's the principal that sets the tone of how hardline they want the school to be, there is huge variance in this even within the same "ethos" of school. Teachers can push back (or, more likely, just passively do as little as they can get away with in relation to pushing religion on kids) but at the end of the day their contract obliges them to "uphold" the "ethos" of the school. So if they actively speak out against RCC or CoI or whatever teaching, they can quite legally be fired.

Paddigol · 22-01-2026 06:30PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124171092#Comment_124171092

In your opinion. Or are you a lawyer with employment law expertise?

Hotblack Desiato · 22-01-2026 07:16PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124171119#Comment_124171119

Not opinion, fact.

Institutions including hospitals and schools with a religious "ethos" have a specific exemption from employment equality legislation

https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1998/act/21/section/37/enacted/en/html#sec37

mountain · 22-01-2026 07:59PM

there is a certain irony in the fact that principal at the time has left and moved to another school

happyoutscan · 22-01-2026 08:45PM

Is it too late for Mammy Burke to be charged with child neglect?

Her children should have been taken from her at birth.

chooseusername · 22-01-2026 09:15PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124171367#Comment_124171367

I believe her move to Bandon had already been agreed before Enoch's meltdown.

It appears she bent over backwards to accomodate Enoch and his beliefs.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/high-court-dublin-christian-b2310219.html

Edit;

Maybe he felt his work mammy was abandoning him.

chooseusername · 22-01-2026 09:53PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124170811#Comment_124170811

Looks like Simeon is hell bent on destroying a fledgling career as a lawyer.

"Mr Burke said: "I can do that in the cell, it is black and white".

At this point, one of Mr Burke's brothers, Simeon, a barrister who appeared in person in his barrister's outfit, said he was representing his brother. When asked by the judge twice if he was he Simeon Burke, he only replied that he was Enoch's brother.

The judge told him he was Simeon and a member of the Bar, and he had no right of audience and would not hear from him.

Simeon told him, what is being directed "is a trap". The judge told him he was asking him to leave the court and when he refused to do so, the judge rose, asking the gardaí to remove him. He left voluntarily at that point."

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/enoch-burke-released-from-prison-again-to-allow-him-prepare-a-new-case-1852319.html

Pentecost · 22-01-2026 10:25PM

Pissing off a litany of judges before you've even started practising isn't a good omen for success as a barrister.

Grayson · 23-01-2026 08:48AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124170819#Comment_124170819

This was a catholic secondary school where half the teachers were priests. It was owned and run by the dioceses. There were regular religion classes. There was daily mass for boarders (I wasn't a boarder).

Since the teachers were priests, there was going to be no-one in the school who would be saying that sex outside marriage is ok or that having gay sex was ok. That would all be sinful. The same with contraception or abortion.

I disagree with that. I don't think that having sex outside marriage etc is going to land you in hell for eternity. I wouldn't encourage teens to have sex but I would encourage the use of contraception, especially condoms to prevent pregnancy and disease.

Here's the thing though. You say that the teachers should push back. If they do, what rights do they have? And that's what I was wondering in Enochs case. I can only imagine how difficult it must be to make a law that balances student rights with the rights of schools and teachers, and not to create a culture war shitstorm at the same time.

Grayson · 23-01-2026 08:52AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124171092#Comment_124171092

That's the thing. If Enoch had followed the proper procedures at some point this would have ended up as a proper court case with barristers and everything. And I'm not sure if the law would have gone for or against him.

It does make me feel that the Burkes aren't thinking about actually winning a case. They never wanted to be legally allowed to refuse to use pronouns. I think they just wanted the publicity.

Dr Robert · 23-01-2026 10:06AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124172143#Comment_124172143

It's all about publicity.

They are hoping it'll go viral in the US. They video everything, upload and then censor the comments. Full time job for one of the minions.

NIMAN · 23-01-2026 10:27AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124172143#Comment_124172143

Well they had legal experts in the family, you would have thought they would have known the best way to approach this.

Dr Robert · 23-01-2026 10:29AM

Does Enoch have special security arrangements in Mountjoy? He doesn't look like a guy that couid hold his own in that environment.

Orange is the new Burke

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