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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,042 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    plus whatever Ireland A/Ireland XV games get scheduled too, which Farrell really seems to value.

    If we can keep up a decent pace of 1-2 new genuine options per test window between now and the RWC, we'll be in good shape.

    There is no need for a massive cull of players, nor do we have the players to replace them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,285 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    That's exactly it for me, it's a kind of steady introduction of options.

    November 2025: Paddy McCarthy & Tommy O'Brien (debuted in summer, but established in test squad in Nov)

    Six Nations 2025: Jack Boyle

    November 2024: Sam Prendergast, Tom Clarkson, Gus McCarthy, Cormac Izuchukwu

    Summer 2024: Jamie Osborne

    6 Nations 2024: Calvin Nash (had debuted v Italy pre RWC, but meaningful minutes in 6N), Ciaran Frawley (first start), Oli Jager

    I'm hoping we'll see another few guys come through in this forthcoming 6N - possibly Edwin Edogbo, the Ward brothers or JJ Kenny.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 502 ✭✭✭The Macho Man


    Regarding the kick contestables, I'm a little on the fence about that because I've a feeling they are going to change the rules again. There's a lot of discontent around the changes due to it having the opposite effect to what was originally intend.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,029 ✭✭✭50HX


    I agree but will it be changed soon will the rwc coming into focus...i doubt it

    The Saffers would be in uproar



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,052 ✭✭✭Zeugnis


    Progressing players to test level can happen fast if it has to. Paddy McCarthy is a case in point. Last year's 6N saw Porter start all five games and average 69 mins per match. Cian Healy took the remaining minutes against France, England and Scotland, Boyle those against Italy and Wales.

    In the Autumn Series, Porter started 3/4, and averaged 57 minutes, with Paddy McCarthy taking all the rest. Who would have expected that from a 22 year old prop at the start of the season? And would any of us have been concerned about PMC starting against any of the teams in this 6N?

    For all of the positions where people here have expressed concerns, there are players with very high potential in the provinces. Some of them are very young and could benefit from more time, but if it's not available, so be it. LHP is the sole exception to this right now, but even there I'm optimistic that further depth will emerge.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,042 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    I'm hoping we'll see another few guys come through in this forthcoming 6N - possibly Edwin Edogbo, the Ward brothers or JJ Kenny.

    Edogbo would be a great addition, we don't get that sort of bulk very often. Not sure about his ability to last 80 minutes of a test match, however.

    I would love to see Zac Ward named, but I'm still wary of Kenny - too often we've seen wingers burst on to the scene, look amazing, then their flaws become more evident over time. Give him a run with Ireland A and see how it goes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,029 ✭✭✭50HX


    Yes Edogbo is a bench impact player for now but what punch he would bring. Imagine him & paddy mc coming off the bench together against a tiring big pack in time to come.

    Zac Ward needs to be looked at & has played both wings iirc.

    Kenny has a few issues defensively for me but defo worth a look in A game.

    Its been a while since we had hopes of 2 promising wingers together...thankfully TOB came through fit last year & took his chance



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 420 ✭✭roverjoyce


    Remember playing POM Murray & Healy in last year's 6 nations

    That set Ireland back a year in blooding squad depth



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,621 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Is the squad being announced today?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,300 ✭✭✭TRC10


    P McCarthy has looked good in his caps to date, but to me he still looks badly undersized. Hopefully he puts on some mass in his injury layoff because right now he’s dwarfed by pretty much every international tighthead.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,285 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    Murray & Healy got 46 mins and 30 mins respectively.

    If that set us back a year then we've got real problems.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,052 ✭✭✭Zeugnis




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 121 ✭✭slowway20206


    It's tomorrow.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,723 ✭✭✭ersatz


    It's not very significant granted, but if a player was to have debuted on those minutes he's be a year into his test carreer now. On the one hand we got a sentimental and anachronistic retirement circus for the three lads, and on the other we are a year closer to the World Cup with a big hole were the third choice scrum half should be. Maybe there is noone putting their hand up, etc. But the same argument as I've used on the Sexton thing applies, the coach must prepare players to play for Ireland regardless of their limitations if he sees them as next off the rank. Would the results of last year's 6N be any different if Murray and Healy had been excluded?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,836 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I completely get this logic, but it is worth pointing out that Paddy McCarthy has rather seamlessly moved up the ranks and was quite likely to even start against France before his injury. However he had a grand total of 135 minutes of pro rugby from 6 bench appearances before the 6N last year so he was obviously never going to be picked. He did play for Ireland A so the management could get a good look at him and now see where he is.

    So basically I don't think not playing Healy would have changed anything.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,723 ✭✭✭ersatz


    That's the same reason I think the Murray thing is a little more critical. FR was something we were panicking about 2-3 years ago but it's looking a lot healthier today, SH is a problem though. JPG is getting on, people aren't fully convinced by Casey (who has always had a question over his size) and then there is a group of players who have had very little exposure to test rugby, some of them well experienced in club rugby. That group needs to be examined at a higher level.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,042 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    It’s very easy to say we shouldn’t have played a given player.

    It’s harder to say who we should have played instead.

    If we’d played Blade instead of Murray in the last 6N, does anyone really think that’s moving the needle on our RWC prospects?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,534 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    Tightheads generally tend to be bigger and heavier than loose heads to lock the scrum out. Case in point is Porter who had to slim down when he moved to LH to get around the pitch. Cian Healy started playing some of his best later career rugby when he dropped weight. He went from 125kg at the 2015 WC to 115kg two years later. It helped improve his mobility around the pitch.

    “I suppose at the World Cup, I was 125kg then I dropped to 120 and I just didn’t like it up and around that so this year I dropped it right down. I was 114 coming back in after the summer. I’m kind of hovering around 115 now and pretty happy with it.”

    Performances of old are returning.

    “Yeah, I just got rid of the **** weight. There is no belly weight or anything like that. I’m probably the leanest I have been since, Jesus, I don’t know, 2008 or so. I’m feeling good. I don’t feel like I have any excess weight.”

    https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/cian-healy-in-flying-form-after-losing-weight-and-lifting-the-fitness-1.3286183



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,300 ✭✭✭TRC10


    I know all that but to my eye McCarthy still looks tiny. Much smaller than Porter is or Healy ever was. He’s listed at 110kg which is pretty light even for a loosehead



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 121 ✭✭slowway20206


    Listed weights are useless and rarely accurate



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,300 ✭✭✭TRC10


    I know, hence why I also gave my own opinion based on what my eyes see.

    Look I rate McCarthy. But I still worry that he’s pretty lightweight and him getting monstered in the scrum against SA didn’t do much to put to bed my concerns. Him and Porter are probably the best Looseheads we have but neither of them are good scrummagers



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,534 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    Seems a dynamic and powerful guy to me. I’m sure weight will inevitably come on as he gets older but dynamism is often more important than extra weight when carrying/tackling and I wouldn’t want to see him lose that. Likewise scrummaging in the front row appears to be largely based on technique. Having big heavy second rows behind you doesn’t hurt either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,285 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    He’s not being physically over powered by anyone so far (occasionally caught out on technique) and has managed to physically overpower a number of experienced THPs.

    He looks incredibly physical in his carrying, tackling and rucking.

    They’ve managed to put a lot of size onto him already since his U20 days, so I’m fairly confident they know what they’re doing with him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,317 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    Anyone any notion of what size the Ireland XV squad vs England might be?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    What time is the squad announcement at?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,836 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    1500



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,300 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    That's a very big Ireland xv squad versus England.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,133 ✭✭✭KrustyUCC


    The kit bill will be enormous lol



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,949 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    The Time this place will go into meltdown when James Lowe is named in The squad for France



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,996 ✭✭✭Ben Bailey




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