Civil servants told to spend more time in the office - Irish Times - Mod warning #526

CivilServantCP · 13-01-2026 10:24PM

Well the union has been very weak in Finance. Office attendance days have been increased steadily and now we have 3 days a week looming in February. This is not a finance only issue. You can be sure if this is going to happen to us, soon it will happen to all departments. I would encourage solidarity across the whole civil and public service on this issue so they can't divide and conquer us one by one. We have a meeting on Friday about the move to 3 days with the Union, everyone is waiting to see what comes out of that. But the email we received struck a defeatist tone. It's not acceptable for a union to be accepting this. We have worked the best part of a decade and set our lives up around the local arrangements we have. Most importantly the work is being done. How can the union stand by and let this happen?

LastApacheInjun · 14-01-2026 11:18AM

I don't know if Unite is your union? Our local union reps have said that it would be a strike issue if our public service employer moved us from 50% in office to 60%. Vast majority of employees here feel the same. As such, our management have had to roll back on threats to move to 60% when they saw the strength of views. I'd say canvas your fellow co-workers and get them to email the union - if the union feel like this is a red line they will take a stronger tone.

That said, employers in the white collar sector don't really care if people leave. RTO policies aren't being implemented because of productivity concerns, they're being implemented to get rid of people, because AI is inevitably going to mean that they will need less staff. This way, they don't have to pay redundancy.

CramCycle · 14-01-2026 12:34PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124145253#Comment_124145253

Then you need to rile up your co workers into an email campaign to the union so they know it is a redline issue. The work is being done, so long as you can show that, then senior management do not have a leg to stand on.

skidmarkoner · 14-01-2026 12:35PM

Agreed that is what our government is doing too, finance is the closet to private sector culture you'll find and that is why they are trying it first.

Aisling(",) · 14-01-2026 12:55PM

I don't think there's a strong union culture in Finance compared to say Revenue or Ag. Anyone I speak to who isn't a long term civil servant isn't in the union and those that are mainly keep it up to avail of the income continuance.

Hotblack Desiato · 14-01-2026 06:16PM

Interesting that the car hire firm Hertz is moving into a new HQ one tenth the size of its old one.

https://www.irishtimes.com/property/commercial-property/2026/01/14/hertz-inks-deal-with-ryanair-for-new-dublin-office-headquarters/

The company’s new office space extends to 1,797sq m (19,346sq ft), representing a substantial reduction on the 18,581sq m (200,000sq ft) it occupied formerly at Swords Business Park. Hertz made the decision to sell its original headquarters in response to its introduction of hybrid working in the wake of the Covid-19 pandemic and its reduced office footprint requirements.

CivilServantCP · 14-01-2026 06:41PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124146430#Comment_124146430

We shouldn't suffer as union members because of that though. Forsa is a whole civil service union. Unfair treatment of one cohort of staff should be considered unfair treatment of all and the union should respond accordingly. Especially for something as vital as WFH.

kippy · 14-01-2026 06:56PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124145253#Comment_124145253

Next time there's a global or local crisis employees who have seen WFH eroded need to think long and hard about facilitating their employers request to keep the show on the road.

The unions have been extremely weak for a long time now, in general because people have generally been happy enough not to look for more. I think that day might be coming to an end but not sure if it's too late to empower the unions again. There's been a lot of movement from senior union officials into the 'managenent' side over the last few decades and I do think this potential pathway for high paid officials has eroded the power of the unions.

I know of several public sector organisations where the WFH directives have been applied in a very very unfair and haphazard way but nothing really done about it.

Management side have managed to break the unions and the unions have let it happen, primarily because they allowed specific sector deals between management and certain sectors of the organisation, not exactly very Union like.

Flinty997 · 14-01-2026 11:11PM

I think the unions were very slow to get pay restoration after the recovery. It's been constant shrinking of influence ever since. How much influence do they have any more in smaller public sector organisations.

I think everyone will move to 3 days eventually and it will stay at that for a few years.

At the same time the pressure on commuters will only increase. They can't seem to join the dots.

Aisling(",) · 15-01-2026 10:07AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124147557#Comment_124147557

Oh I agree but people need to raise the point to their reps and if people aren't members there's no one to push it.

It's very harsh considering the Finance counterparts in Revenue are one day a week.

dulpit · 15-01-2026 10:34AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124148860#Comment_124148860

And revenue seem to be the most efficient department we have. Tax return filled out on Monday, response received on Tuesday. Can't fault that.

creedp · 15-01-2026 10:50AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124148860#Comment_124148860

Public sector unions (just like the Govt) are great at calling on their members for solidarity for pet causes but are not very good at delivering on it for their general membership. As mentioned earlier because of this many civil servants choose to continue to be members solely for the ancillary benefits.
As for WFH, the horse has already bolted on the solidarity front. If the unions were in any way serious about preserving wfh benefits they would not have allowed DPER to enforce a 3 day in the office week over a year ago now. How does anyone expect the Unions to now fight for the preservation of WFH benefits on solidarity grounds across the civil service when they have already ceded it in DPER

caviardreams · 15-01-2026 10:56AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124148927#Comment_124148927

TBF that is entirely automated (but obviously they have good systems which is to be commended)

I am usually waiting 2-3 weeks for responses to queries from them, and often don't get a one-stop solution and need to follow up and wait weeks again. It has really gone downhill. They used to be excellent CS wise

CivilServantCP · 15-01-2026 11:22AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124148976#Comment_124148976

Just because they were useless once that is not a reason to expect them to be useless again. We should expect them to stand by their workers a d serve their interests, that's their role.

Mrs OBumble · 15-01-2026 11:36AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124149069#Comment_124149069

A union is not some entity separate from the workers: it's only as powerful as the workers willingness to take industrial action. Which is low.

Automation is reducing the need for CS workers all the time. Application numbers in recent competitions have been higher than usual. Entry level CO wage is now higher than similar private sector jobs.

Wages won't be going up much.

creedp · 15-01-2026 11:46AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124149069#Comment_124149069

Do you expect the collective PS Union membership to now retrospectively commence the process of herding the bolted WFH horse back into the stable? Will there be a strong red line solidarity position taken across the public sector on this issue?

Will be interesting to see how the DoF members deals with the upcoming Feb 3 day ultimatum.

CivilServantCP · 15-01-2026 12:06PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124149105#Comment_124149105

People still need to sign off on documents and check them.

TaurenDruid · 16-01-2026 03:55PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124149105#Comment_124149105

techman1 · 17-01-2026 03:48PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124149188#Comment_124149188

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYcZc62Gf6w

littlefeet · 17-01-2026 04:50PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124149105#Comment_124149105

I had an interesting conversation with someone who has a job in the broader public service. Another layer of checking has been added to their job, so AI is not reducing the need for public servants; it's just changing the work. They had previously worked in the UK, and what they were surprised at here was the level of qualification the staff had, which was in no way commensurate with the level of skill required for the work. The staff were all way overqualified for the skill level required for the work. The work is clerical admin.

Mrs OBumble · 17-01-2026 05:02PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124149188#Comment_124149188

I am 99.9% sure that no one checked dulpit's tax return.

People need to check some things, for sure. Probably not all of them though, either a sample, or just the most complex.

The judgement calls that need human checking will increasingly need collaboration and creative thinking. That's best done co-located.

TaurenDruid · 17-01-2026 07:17PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124156375#Comment_124156375

"The judgement calls that need human checking will increasingly need collaboration and creative thinking. That's best done co-located."

Yet another assertion from you with absolutely nothing to back it up.

Fewer and fewer human staff work in Revenue's PAYE branches. They've automated loads, and concentrate resources on the areas with bigger risks and potential returns. As is only logical.

And in both PAYE and self-employed areas, if an anomaly is automatically flagged, or a staff member spots something themselves, and it needs someone else to it check over, or escalation, it's literally a couple of button presses and maybe a Teams call. What are you proposing? Joe prints out a tax return, walks up to Mary's office, asks her to have a look at the printout and explains the issue, she says "I'll have a look, leave it with me," and Joe walks back to his desk? How on earth is that any more efficient?!

You're talking about Revenue, one of the most efficient organisations in the state, public or private. Who are mostly on 1-day/week in the office.

CivilServantCP · 17-01-2026 10:38PM

It's a massive failure by the unions that it's even come to this point. But it's not too late for them to put the foot down and say actually this is wrong and we're not accepting this. The union seems out of touch at best. If they don't act now over this they could see people questioning their value.

CivilServantCP · 18-01-2026 10:28PM

Just out of curiosity, would people on this thread vote to stand in solidarity with another civil/public service body to protect an unfair change to their remote working policy? An attack on one is an attack on all in this regard I would claim, so a collective response is best is my feeling.

Mister R · 19-01-2026 12:21AM

I always felt the issue from the start was that Departments could have whatever policy they wanted and there was no central policy on this, when the whole CS operates largely off central policies.

But it’s understandable that there couldn’t be as many civil servants have customer facing and public counter type roles which simply can’t have WFH. So there is now in some Departments (including mine) an awkward scenario of some staff still doing 5 days (and annoyed about it) and others doing whatever off the books arrangement their manager agrees to.

Hotblack Desiato · 19-01-2026 02:38AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124156375#Comment_124156375

ffs

It's a self-declaration. The only way to "check" it is to demand receipts for expenses claimed, etc. - which is done on a percentage of cases, and on the basis of risk analysis

You're talking absolute nonsense. Revenue has 1 day in the office per week for most staff, if they don't see an issue with WFH why do you?

TaurenDruid · 19-01-2026 11:10AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124160937#Comment_124160937

Despite one post, ever, that I've seen from Mrs OBumble where she claimed she's actually in favour of blended working, every other post on these threads by her has been 100% anti-WFH, backed by no actual evidence, just anecdote and gut feeling. WFH would be responsible for enabling slacking, security breaches, data breaches, and so on, ad infinitum, but that's all impossible in a big open plan office, with middle managers walking up and down between desks like leaving cert invigilators!

TaurenDruid · 19-01-2026 11:11AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124160445#Comment_124160445

Yup. That would depend on Fórsa, the AHCPS and the ICTU public service committee growing a bit more backbone, though.

LastApacheInjun · 19-01-2026 04:13PM

I would stand with civil/public servants from other areas if WFH arrangements were unreasonably changed.

Ideally what we need is common rules across the civil/public service. E.g. if you are in a public facing role, your role is not suitable to WFH.

For all others, the baseline should be 40% in office, 60% at home.

For the first six months in any new position, your employer should have the right for you to attend the office more than 40% of the time so that you can shadow other colleagues. If you are requested to attend the office more than 60% of the time, in order to train in new colleagues, that should be for no more than six months in any 12 month period, and no more than twice in any three year period.

For those in higher management positions, such as Principal Officer or higher, the baseline may be 80% in office. This is because the vast majority of their work is done in meetings.

Flexibility should be built in for particularly busy periods - e.g. you can be requested to attend the office more than 40% of the time, for a period of no longer than four weeks, no more than three times a year. If you are requested to do so on more occasions, some kind of benefit could be baked in - e.g. additional annual leave, or overtime.

This is really what the unions should be negotiating. If we don't have it set in stone, these kinds of benefits are going to be eroded.

TaurenDruid · 19-01-2026 06:59PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124162254#Comment_124162254

"E.g. if you are in a public facing role, your role is not suitable to WFH."

The vast majority of the time, yes. But people in public facing roles also have meetings, training, PMDS, reports to write up, etc. No reason they need to be 100% in office while doing all the non-public-facing work.

"For all others, the baseline should be 40% in office, 60% at home."

Why? That's just arbitrary. Revenue are managing very well with a majority of staff on 20% office, 80% home, for example. They're not alone.

"For those in higher management positions, such as Principal Officer or higher, the baseline may be 80% in office. This is because the vast majority of their work is done in meetings."

Which can take place over Teams. Especially if they involve people from different buildings, different organisations, are inter-Departmental, or involve EU institutions.

Flexibility, yes, absolutely - I've had no problem pulling staff in an extra day a week over a set period because of a particular project. But it works both ways. The flexibility the other way, being granted, meant I knew I could count on it working my way when I needed it.

Civil servants told to spend more time in the office - Irish Times - Mod warning #526

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