Israel/Palestine Thread

SafeSurfer · 18-01-2026 09:26PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124160148#Comment_124160148

You said

“I suspect that many of Israel's enemies would not be satisfied - like Iran for example, and their proxies. ISIS, Al Qaeda etc,”

wildgreen · 18-01-2026 09:29PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124160148#Comment_124160148

This is what you said, you have lost any last bit of credibility :)

Would it end? I suspect that many of Israel's enemies would not be satisfied - like Iran for example, and their proxies. ISIS, Al Qaeda etc, and the people in the West who go on marches chanting "From the River to the Sea, Palestine will be free"

SeanW · 18-01-2026 09:31PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124160216#Comment_124160216

That's part of what I said.

Iran and its proxies. The a new sentence: IS, AQ, Western Leftists etc.

Would it end? I suspect that many of Israel's enemies would not be satisfied - like Iran for example, and their proxies. ISIS, Al Qaeda etc, and the people in the West who go on marches chanting "From the River to the Sea, Palestine will be free"

At no time did I state that AQ/IS were Iranian proxies.

SafeSurfer · 18-01-2026 10:01PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124160235#Comment_124160235

Sure Sean. A sentence without a verb as you write above makes no sense.

Odhinn · 18-01-2026 10:02PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124160235#Comment_124160235

…except for the bit where you stated they were Iranian proxies.

SeanW · 18-01-2026 10:40PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124160358#Comment_124160358

Except I did not. I may have been unintentionally unclear in phrasing, but I did not claim that IS and AQ were Iranian proxies. Now, if you want to go on whacking that strawman, go right ahead.

Odhinn · 18-01-2026 11:36PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124160493#Comment_124160493

"like Iran for example, and their proxies. ISIS, Al Qaeda etc"

You were wrong. It happens.

SeanW · 18-01-2026 11:44PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124160683#Comment_124160683

Separate sentences, for different enemies. Iran and their proxies. Full stop. End of sentence. Then, other enemies like IS, AQ, the Western left etc. Separate sentence, albeit poorly phrased.

Regarding my original point, which was to question whether Israel's enemies would be satisfied by their withdrawal to the 1967 borders, are you claiming that:

Iran and its proxies
Sunni groups like IS and AQ
The Western left, including people who bang on about colonialism

would be satisfied by Israeli withdrawal? Or would they continue to press for Israel's destruction, now perceiving it as weaker?

You can either that question or continue beating that strawman.

wildgreen · 18-01-2026 11:58PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124160705#Comment_124160705

Conclusion is that you do not know what a sentence is because you did not have separate sentences.

SeanW · 19-01-2026 12:10AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124160744#Comment_124160744

The most you can claim is that phrased that statement badly. But yes, full stops = separate sentences.

Grayson · 19-01-2026 08:14AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124158752#Comment_124158752

The destruction of Dresden wasn't less severe. It was shorter, but it was definitely more severe. In two nights 20k people were killed. It created a firestorm that sucked the oxygen out of cellars. Bodies of adults were found that were the size of children because of the heat.

The bombing was known not to be accurate. But in this case it was deliberately attempting to kill civilians.

By anyones reckoning it was a warcrime. The thing is that we only created the rules about crimes against humanity after the way. And the victors did the prosecuting. As far as I'm concerned, Bomber Harris was a war criminal. And the important thing to remember is that Dresden was 2 days.

But it is different to Gaza. The allies were trying to kill civilians but they weren't trying to erase Germany. With the exception of bomber attacks the western allies didn't kill civilians when they encountered them. And the gazans have been subject to lower intensity bombing, but for a far, far longer time. They've also been denied sufficient aid.

In someways comparing the two events is pointless. They are both war crimes. They are both crimes against humanity. But they were both conducted in different ways under entirely different circumstances.

And that's only analysing whats happening since the October attacks. If we look at the decades before where we see gaza shut off, we see the west bank colonised, we see the apartheid and the arbitrary arrests and shootings it's more like the nazis.

SafeSurfer · 19-01-2026 11:17AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124161013#Comment_124161013

When speaking of war damage assessment , “severe” has a specific meaning. Gaza is 365 square kilometres. The majority of which has been levelled. In Dresden the area affected was less than 10% of this. In Gaza almost 2 million people were displaced, many, multiple times.
The suburbs and outlying districts of Dresden were much less “severely” damaged and remained habitable.
Both are war crimes but the damage inflicted on Gaza has certainly been more severe.

Odhinn · 19-01-2026 01:11PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124160705#Comment_124160705

As I stated earlier -

It would give them an "out" from backing whatever proxies they might have. They get to confine their stance to the odd bit of hyperbole with no loss of face.

And yes, you claimed ISIS and Al Qaeda were Iranian proxies.

Grayson · 19-01-2026 03:11PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124161339#Comment_124161339

That was one night. Dresden was bombed multiple times. According to this wiki page 59% was destroyed. Some cities were over 80
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_bombing_during_World_War_II

And even on the two nights of the firebombing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden#On_the_ground

A Dresden police report written shortly after the attacks reported that the old town and the inner eastern suburbs had been engulfed in a single fire that had destroyed almost 12,000 dwellings.
The same report said that the raids had destroyed the Wehrmacht's main command post in the Taschenbergpalais, 63 administration buildings, the railways, 19 military hospitals, 19 ships and barges, and a number of less significant military facilities. The destruction also encompassed 640 shops, 64 warehouses, 39 schools, 31 stores, 31 large hotels, 26 public houses/bars, 26 insurance buildings, 24 banks, 19 postal facilities, 19 hospitals and private clinics including auxiliary, overflow hospitals, 18 cinemas, 11 churches and 6 chapels, 5 consulates, 4 tram facilities, 3 theatres, 2 market halls, the zoo, the waterworks, and 5 other cultural buildings.
Almost 200 factories were damaged, 136 seriously (including several of the Zeiss Ikon precision optical engineering works), 28 with medium to serious damage, and 35 with light damage

Now don't think I'm defending the Israelis. I'm not. I'm just saying that the firebombing of german cities was horrific. And should be considered a war crime.

Gaza has suffered horrifically. I think the destruction of buildings is bad. But for me the long term malnutrition and lack of emergency aid is in many way worse. They're denied tents because the Israelis determined that tent poles are dangerous.

SeanW · 19-01-2026 06:28PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124161679#Comment_124161679

You would have to be incredibly naïve to believe that the Ayatollahs' could be appeased in that manner. History shows us that trying to appease a tyrannical dictatorship bent on destruction and conquest rarely ends well.

Your assertion in that regard makes about as much sense as your strawman about my supposed claim linking Iran to IS/AQ. That is to say, none. But hey, keep whacking that strawman 😁

Odhinn · 19-01-2026 07:27PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124162591#Comment_124162591

Theres no need. You were wrong, you've been corrected and hopefully won't make the same mistake twice.

Roman Emperor · 19-01-2026 10:05PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124153895#Comment_124153895

I think it's clear at this stage that Israel isn't interested in peace - never was really.

They need to be on a constant war footing because they don't, and never did, want a Palestinian state.

The remarks of Henry Kissinger in 1974 says it all,

"I ask Rabin to make concessions, and he says he can't because Israel is weak.

So I give him more arms, and then he says he doesn't need to make concessions because Israel is strong"

StarryPlough01 · 20-01-2026 02:41AM

My Notes:

There are no Palestinians included in the BOARD OF PEACE.

Al Jazeera Journalist Ruby Zaman said:

“The Board of Peace was introduced as part of the Phase II of the ‘ceasefire’ framework between Israel and Hamas

“It has an ambitious mandate: Rebuilding Gaza, managing governance, mobilising investment and reshaping regional relations.

“But letters sent by Trump to invited leaders, including Presidents of Argentina, Paraguay and Turkiye suggest a far wider scope. .....

“For critics, the concern is that Gaza is becoming a testing ground, not for peace, but for a new geopolitical experiment. As political analyst Aaron David Miller put it: “the gap between ambition and reality is stark.”

Political analyst Aaron Miller stated: “Anybody looking at the situation in Gaza right now and comparing the challenges that need to be overcome on one hand, and looking at the 20-Point Trump Peace Plan, would have to conclude, there’s a huge disconnect between aspiration and results.”

STARRY: ^^^ For me, what is key is “managing governance”. Trump’s declaration of taking over Gaza and making it the Riviera of the Middle East, springs to mind. The forced displacement of 2 Million Palestinians to other countries...

Video
https://www.aljazeera.com/video/newsfeed/2026/1/19/trumps-gaza-board-of-peace-draws-scepticism

Trump’s Gaza ‘Board of Peace’ draws scepticism
US President Donald Trump has unveiled a proposed “Board of Peace” initially aimed at rebuilding Gaza but now pitched as a global conflict body. Critics see a wide gap between its lofty promises and political reality. Al Jazeera’s Ruby Zaman takes a look the growing scepticism over whether it can deliver meaningful change.
Published On 19 Jan 2026

BACKGROUND

‘Kremlin says Putin has been invited to join Trump’s Gaza ‘board of peace’

‘Russia says it is seeking to ‘clarify all the nuances’ of offer it claims Washington has made before responding’

Julian Borger Senior international correspondent, Tue 20 Jan 2026
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/jan/19/kremlin-says-putin-invited-join-trump-gaza-board-of-peace

Board of Peace:
‘Trump appoints Blair, Kushner and Rubio to Gaza ‘board of peace’

‘White House says seven-strong board, chaired by Trump, will steer Gaza through next phase of reconstruction’

David Smith in Washington and Robert Mackey, 16 Jan 2026
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/jan/16/trump-gaza-board-rubio-blair

Extract
“Trump has also appointed the former head of US special forces, Maj Gen Jasper Jeffers, to lead an International Stabilisation Force (ISF), which is to oversee security across the territory.”

‘Israel far-right ministers reject US-backed postwar Gaza panel’

‘Finance minister says Netanyahu should back annexation and settlement, and attacks Turkey and Qatar’s role on Gaza ‘executive board’

Lorenzo Tondo in Jerusalem, 18 Jan 2026
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/jan/18/israel-far-right-ministers-reject-us-backed-postwar-gaza-panel

Extract
“The White House said Trump’s plan would include three bodies: the board of peace, chaired by Trump; a Palestinian committee of technocrats tasked with governing Gaza; and the Gaza executive board, which would play an advisory role.”

wildgreen · 20-01-2026 10:27AM

Israel continues to keep Rafah crossing closed.

Israel has decided to keep the Rafah crossing closed and to prevent the Gaza administration committee from entering the territory, despite US demands. This comes amid disagreements with Washington over the make-up of the executive council and the role of Qatar and Turkey. At the same time, information indicates that no date has been set for the committee to start work because of direct Israeli obstacles.

According to the Israeli newspaper Yedioth Ahronoth on Monday, the decision not to open the Rafah crossing was taken on Sunday evening during a meeting of Israel’s smaller security and political cabinet. The meeting was chaired by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

The newspaper quoted a senior Israeli official as saying that including representatives from Turkey and Qatar in the council overseeing the reconstruction of Gaza “was not part of the original understandings between Israel and the United States”. The official added that it is also unclear what powers this new body will have and what its exact role will be

The Israeli official repeated that “the inclusion of Turkey and Qatar was against Netanyahu’s wishes”. He said this was “Kushner’s and Witkoff’s revenge on him, because of his insistence not opening the crossing” before the return of the body of the last Israeli captive held in the Gaza Strip.

wildgreen · 20-01-2026 10:36AM

The ethnic cleansing is full on.

Israeli bulldozers on Tuesday began demolishing structures inside the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees (UNRWA) compound in the Sheikh Jarrah neighborhood of Jerusalem, Palestinian WAFA news agency reported.

Meanwhile, an Al Arabiya correspondent reported that Far-right Israeli Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir oversaw the demolition process.

wildgreen · 20-01-2026 10:40AM

More victimhood.

The US is considering granting asylum to British Jews, according to a report published by The Telegraph on Sunday.

President Donald Trump’s personnel lawyer, Robert Garson, told the British newspaper that he had been in talks with the State Department about providing sanctuary for Jews fleeing antisemitism in the UK.

wildgreen · 20-01-2026 10:42AM

Uefa may lose tax-free status because of failure to kick Israel out. Maybe they will move their HQ to Jerusalem!

Councillors in Switzerland’s Canton of Vaud are set to vote on Tuesday on a resolution to revoke Uefa's longstanding tax-exempt status, as it failed to suspend the Israeli Football Association (IFA), a councillor who led the initiative told Middle East Eye.

European football's governing body is headquartered in Vaud's Nyon, where international sports federations enjoy tax exemptions when they can demonstrate that their activities promote peace, as well as combat racism and discrimination.

But according to the Game Over Israel campaign and the Swiss councillors who collaborated on this initiative, Uefa’s continued recognition of Israeli clubs based in unlawfully occupied Palestine directly contradicts this mandate.

“The only reason Uefa has this tax exemption is because international sports federations are expected to promote peace,” Theophile Schenker, one of the four councillors behind the initiative, told MEE.

“Right now, by maintaining the Israeli Football Association as a member, they are not meeting that condition.”

wildgreen · 20-01-2026 10:45AM

Worth a read even just the quote from Edward Said.

https://www.palestinechronicle.com/the-theatre-of-protection-and-repression-of-the-palestine-solidarity-movement/

Edward Said captured this logic with unusual precision, arguing:

“The main thing is to isolate your enemy from time, from causality, from prior action, and thereby to portray him or her as ontologically and gratuitously interested in wreaking havoc for its own sake. Thus, if you can show that…Moslems, Palestinian’s and Arabs, generally speaking, have no reality except that which…confirms their terrorist essence as…Moslems, Palestinians, and Arabs, you can go on to attack them and their ‘terrorist’ states generally, and avoid all questions about your own behavior or about your share in their present fate.”

Odhinn · 20-01-2026 07:50PM

More land grabbing -

"The Israeli government plans to build some 1,400 housing units on an East Jerusalem site used by the UN's Palestinian refugee agency UNRWA, after its buildings were demolished early on Tuesday."

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2026-01-20/ty-article/.premium/israel-planning-1-400-housing-units-on-razed-east-jerusalem-unwra-site/0000019b-db36-d5db-affb-df3ec7fe0000

SeanW · 20-01-2026 08:31PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124163875#Comment_124163875

What is the problem there?

wildgreen · 20-01-2026 10:45PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124165661#Comment_124165661

The British government is very pro-Israel so the notion of British Jews having to flee for their lives from the UK is absurd. Ask Palestinians about what fleeing for your life means.

wildgreen · 20-01-2026 10:52PM

The long arm of the law.

An Israeli national was detained and interrogated for hours at a Canadian airport this week following a legal complaint filed by the Hind Rajab Foundation (HRF), a development the organisation says reflects mounting international pressure to hold perpetrators and inciters of Israel’s war crimes in Gaza accountable.

The foundation said Israeli propagandist and performer Guy Hochman was detained at Toronto Pearson International Airport and questioned for approximately six hours after Canadian authorities received a criminal complaint and an extensive evidentiary dossier compiled by HRF and partner organisations.

According to Israeli media reports, Hochman was released only after intervention by the Israeli embassy.

SeanW · 20-01-2026 11:52PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124166138#Comment_124166138

This claim is a little bit silly given that European countries are allowing boat loads of economic migrants to land in our countries and claim "asylum." It doesn't seem - to some - to be a problem for a country to have a permissive immigration policy, unless the beneficiary are Jews?

Secondly, this could be an "America First" play by the Trump administration if that administration views the migration of Jews to the USA as a positive for that country. And they wouldn't be entirely wrong.

Thirdly, as to the Palestinians, surely they should be able to flee somewhere within the MENA (Middle East North Africa) region?

TokTik · 21-01-2026 10:49AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124166305#Comment_124166305

Why should they have to flee anywhere Sean?? What are innocent Palestinians fleeing??

wildgreen · 21-01-2026 10:57AM

This says it all about the US support of the ethnic cleansing and genocide in Palestine:

The Israeli leader’s office announced on social media on Wednesday that Netanyahu is to join the initiative, despite the International Criminal Court (ICC) having issued a warrant for his arrest for war crimes in Gaza.

Israel/Palestine Thread

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