Advertisement
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.
Hi all, please see this major site announcement: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058427594/boards-ie-2026

US/Israel conduct airstrikes on Iran again

1119120122124125431

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,182 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    It’s the imperative to manufacture consent. Footage of mass pro regime demonstrations in Iran are not shown on western media are labeled “unverified” “possibly AI” yet every western media promoted the “40 beheaded babies” claim including the president of the United States.

    Western citizens are not to be trusted to make up our own minds. Instead of Iranian government spokespeople we get anti regime activists or conservative think tank commentators.
    During the violence in Gaza, pro Israel politicians and spokespeople were given an inordinate amount of time to articulate and defend their position. I haven’t heard the Iranian or Venezuelan ambassadors on RTE. Because the west has deemed them “illegitimate”.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,610 ✭✭✭mulbot




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,630 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    If you have not seen it, watch the Piers Morgan episode with the regime and anti regime representatives, it's an insight into this kind of propaganda. The propaganda is always that these regimes have no support whatsoever and are only waiting for western intervention to bring about secular democracy. The truth very often is not that black and white.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,182 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    This sentiment is especially prevalent in the UK where the Labour government controls two thirds of the seats in parliament having received one third of the votes.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,610 ✭✭✭mulbot


    Yea I've seen it, ironically enough, those trying to hide the truth are actually exposing it.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 342 ✭✭Lucien_Sarti


    Yeah, the whole Western proxy-war media disinformation presentation of Syria since March 2011 has been more of the same.

    On here & the Irish media ecosystem in general - Calling Daly & Wallace, for example, pro-Assadists or whatever ignorant gobdaw framing was put on it? (that messaging was all about: not knowing Jack-Sh1t, numbers, repetition and volume of noise, wasn’t it).

    And that Daly & Wallace were supposedly naif idiots for that view (not that that was an honest portrayl of their views, It wasn’t)

    As an aside, I suppose there is the old adage - Don’t bring a placard and a megaphone to an imperial-battlefield automatic rifle gunfight.

    But yes, the HD videos of US proxy death squads slaughtering minorities in Syria over the last 12 months are unwatchable.

    James Connolly, The Irish Flag (1916)
    Common Prosperity, China (2021)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,036 ✭✭✭rogber


    I'm completely opposed to religious extremists in Israel as well and find the Netenyahu government absolutely repellent.

    Our only point of disagreement is that I said life for women in Islamic societies is almost always much worse than in any non Islamic society, which is an extra black mark against the religion and that women in particular would be much better off in a more secular Iran or any secular society.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,182 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,943 ✭✭✭SeanW


    Considering that the choice Ukrainians faced in WWII was evil genocidal Socialists who had killed 3 - 5 million of their compatriots to death less than decade prior, vs evil genocidal Nazis from the West, individual Ukrainians only had two choices, support the Nazis or support the Soviet Socialists (who had just tried to wipe them out). There was no third option. Both of those choices were beyond horrifying, and I can't fault any of them for the difficult choices they had to make.

    BTW if Israel wanted to know about genocide, they'd have followed Stalin's example, he as his band of Socialists showed the world how a genocide is done (for the want of a better word) "properly."

    Today, however, the current generation of Nazis support Russia, that being people like Tucker Carlson and some on the American right, with many on the extreme right demonising Ukraine and its leader based on his religion. Ironically, I'd be willing to bet the poster I replied to also blames Western "Nazi" imperialism or something for that conflict as well.

    https://u24.gov.ua/
    Join NAFO today:

    Help us in helping Ukraine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,533 ✭✭✭Elmer Blooker


    I think the fact that Ukrainian nationalists rounded up the Jews to be exterminated by the Germans at Babi Yar goes a bit further than ‘support’ don’t you think?



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,182 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    Poles faced a similar choice during WW2. They were attacked, occupied and murdered by both the Germans and the Soviets.
    The Polish government in exile fled to London and fought for the allies.
    Ukrainian nationalist forces not only participated in the Holocaust, including some of its most brutal episodes where whole villages were literally beaten to death with clubs and pipes. Ukrainian nationalists also committed mass murder and ethnic cleansing against Poles. Considered a genocide in Poland. This was not the Nazis. It was entirely Ukrainian.

    It’s understandable that you want to exonerate Ukrainian involvement in the worst excesses of WWII. They found themselves in a terrible position.

    However you use links between a Palestinian leader and the Nazis as proof of antisemitism and involvement in the Holocaust but accept no mitigation for the Palestinians position of being under a brutal British occupation which had promised their land to Zionists for the creation of a Zionist state.
    There were pogroms in Ukraine prior to the Nazis. The epicentre of the murder of Jews during the civil war was in Ukraine, by Ukrainian nationalists. Ukrainian nationalists were still murdering ethnic minorities after the Germans left.
    So accusing WW2 era Palestinians of being antisemitic while absolving the Ukrainians with a “I can’t fault them” is preposterous.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,943 ✭✭✭SeanW


    You could be right, there are gaps in my knowledge of Eastern European WWII history. Most of which revolves around the actions of Germany and the Soviet Union.

    The point was that if you want to bang on about Nazis and the Jews in Israel are actually euro-nazi-colonial-imperialists or whatever, you probably don't want to talk about which side was actually closer to the actual Nazis, at the time. That being, the side that hoped to benefit from the Final Solution being extended to the MENA region - the Grand Mufti and his buddies. As to Hitler's view of the Islamic faith vis-à-vis the Slavic people, that would also be interesting but a topic for another thread.

    https://u24.gov.ua/
    Join NAFO today:

    Help us in helping Ukraine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,943 ✭✭✭SeanW


    The Polish decision was somewhat easier because Stalin (falsely) promised them freedom in exchange for their help in the USSRs former ally, Nazi Germany who had broken the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact. Of course they stabbed the Poles in the back and forced them post war into a puppet state with membership in the Warsaw Pact.

    Ukrainians on the other hand knew they'd be going back into the Soviet Union if the Nazis lost and after the Holodomor, that would have seemed like a worse outcome to some. Though as has been pointed out, many of them were nasty SOBs even accounting for the whole Soviet/Nazi debacle they were in the middle of. I had not taken that into account above.

    https://u24.gov.ua/
    Join NAFO today:

    Help us in helping Ukraine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,016 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    Actually it's closer to asking where's the Greek Orthodox homeland. There is one, even though not everyone in Greece is Greek Orthodox, and not all Greek Orthodox live in Greece.

    Because like Judaism, or Armenian Apostolics, or Coptic Christians, or Druze, or any of the many other ethno religious groups - and unlike religions based on making conversions, such as Roman Catholicism or Islam, there is an ethnic and geographic element to those religions. They don't all have a country (Ethiopian and Ukrainian christians do, the Amish, Sikhs and Yazidis don't)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,016 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    Can you quote one or is that just your own belief? My memory of people who had left South Africa in the 80s, including white women, was that they were generally against their government and did not consider that women's rights were guaranteed at all. Violence against women was widely tolerated in the name of "tradition", and unofficially it still is.

    Even in the 21st century, Nelson Mandela was speaking out about it.

    “Freedom cannot be achieved unless women have been emancipated from all forms of oppression... Our endeavors must be about the liberation of the woman, the emancipation of the man, and the liberty of the child.” 8 December 2013 – Nelson Mandela



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,016 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    When they say "prevalent" it seems to mean "legal" and "occasional", rather than prevalent, right? And the woman who founded the organisation in your link, was "forced into marriage" at 19 years of age.

    Reiss, who was forced into a marriage at 19, founded Unchained at Last, an advocacy nonprofit, in 2011  to help girls and women stuck in forced marriages. The national number of children married has decreased almost every year since 2000 but is unlikely to reach zero without legislative intervention, Reiss said. 

    What specific protection is there in Ireland against forced marriage of 19 year-olds? That's not child marriage.

    As for it being legal, there are lots of outdated laws that have never been changed or removed from the statute books.

    Alabama: No fake mustaches in church if they cause laughter.
    Arizona:
    No donkeys allowed to sleep in bathtubs.
    Arkansas: Mispronouncing “Arkansas” is illegal.  Say it right!
    California:
    Women can’t drive wearing housecoats.
    Colorado:
    Indoor furniture is banned on porches.

    But the real difference is that a woman like Reiss can found a group to get the law changed without fear of being murdered for daring to do so. Women's rights campaigners all across the middle east and in pretty much all Muslim majority countries, even the supposedly developed ones like Saudi Arabia face threats and violence just for trying to help women faced with domestic violence, forced marriage etc.

    Even in the UAE where women's rights are about the closest to equality anywher ein the middle east, "laws still give male guardians authority over women and there are shorter sentences for men who kill a female relative than for women who kill male relatives. As in all the other societies discussed in this paper, men are the ultimate rulers and acceptance of women’s evolving roles is not universal or uniform across all strata of society."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,610 ✭✭✭mulbot


    Judaism, or the now Jews are converts. And what's the ethnic connection in relation to Jews in Guinea, tall think, Black, and those that arrived from the Caucasian regions



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,016 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    Sorry I'm not sure what you're saying. I didn't say nobody ever converted to Judaism, or to any other ethno religion - clearly that happens regularly, through intermarriage and the like.

    But ethno-religions don't have a principle of seeking out new converts, unlike most Christian groups (with a few exceptions, some of which I mentioned earlier) or Islam, where conversion is so simple as to sometimes be almost involuntary, such as when a woman marries a muslim and is thereby deemed to be muslim herself.

    And the point is that they are therefore much more closely associated with a homeland and an ethnic group than "catholics" or "protestants", which was the original attempt at a comparison. That analogy doesn't work, for the reasons I've just given. There is a Jewish homeland, based on the ancient lands of Judea and Samaria. There's no equivalent for Catholicism, not even the Vatican, nor Bethlehem or Nazareth. For one thing, Jesus explicitly denied that he wanted to be "king of the Jews" or any type of political leader. And because the early christians made the choice to go out as missionaries to "spread the news" to foreigners.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,610 ✭✭✭mulbot




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,182 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    I’m not arguing that women enjoy the rights they should across the Middle East.
    I am saying that lack of women’s rights or killing civilians are never an issue as long as it is being done by an ally of the west, be it Saudi Arabia or Israel. It’s only when an enemy of the west does these things that suddenly a red line has been crossed and something must be done.
    The US has installed, armed and supported some of the most extreme, repressive regimes since the middle of the last century. They were absolutely fine with supporting regimes who slaughtered over a million of its own citizens like Suharto in Indonesia. The US happily supported Saudi Arabia while women were being sentenced to stoning to death.
    No depravity is too much for a US ally, they will provide the weapons used to kill civilians but when it’s time for war the US will use the human rights records of enemies as justification.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,368 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    Crazy that Iran still are going to World Cup after killing 10k of it's citizens. Just kick em out, let Ireland in.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,368 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    Ironically the fans can't go, they're banned .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,016 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    I don’t disagree with that - it’s not just women’s rights either: Saudi Arabian agents murdered and dismembered a man in their embassy in Turkey and while there was more concern than if it had been a mere woman, it was only a wobble in the end and is now all but forgotten.

    However the claim was that the US is in any way comparable to Saudi Arabia never mind Iran in terms of laws allowing women to be illtreated. That is just laughable.

    As for Israel, women’s rights have been severely affected in recent years as a result of the strength of the far right in Netanyahu’s administration. It’s just a shame (IMO only - almost certainly not in theirs) that Hamas strengthened that side of Israeli politics by choosing to attack the left wing, whether symbolically by burning kibbutzim or literally by murdering peace activists like Vivian Silver and Oded Lifschitz.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,445 ✭✭✭brickster69


    US actions also known as "economic statecraft" were used to undermine Iran's economy which gave rise to the original protests. He is so smug and proud of himself.

    The old world is dying, and the new world struggles to be born: now is the time of monsters. — Antonio Gramsci



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,610 ✭✭✭mulbot




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,533 ✭✭✭Elmer Blooker


    It just shows that the dollar still rules the world and all that talk about the Yuan replacing the dollar as the global currency is just a fairytale.

    BRICS my arse!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,585 ✭✭✭Marty Bird


    The end of the clip he gave the impression he said too much 🤔 Max is an excellent journalist

    🌞6.02kWp⚡️3.01kWp South/East⚡️3.01kWp West



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,445 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Regime change, coups, proxies, sanctions, economic hardship, assassinations and sabotage. If all that fails, bomb them and pray they don't hit back.

    The old world is dying, and the new world struggles to be born: now is the time of monsters. — Antonio Gramsci



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,228 ✭✭✭TokTik


    Iran seem to have played a blinder. Cut the internet, track all the Starlink users, destroy the traitors. Like something out of a movie. Wonder will Elon get any flak for outing so many mossad agents??



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,610 ✭✭✭mulbot


    Oh yea, worked with farmers in Afghanistan etc, not so much with Iran.



Advertisement
Advertisement