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Russia-Ukraine War (continuing)

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,221 ✭✭✭vixdname


    Holy moly, theres so much after going on in the last 24 hrs:

    The US says it may use military means to "aquire" Greenland

    The EU \ UK etc state they'll "Defend Greenlands Soverignty"

    The Danish president says a US invasion of Greenland is the end of NATO.

    Trumps gets pissed and says "He will always be there for NATO, EVEN IF THEY WONT BE THERE FOR US"

    Trump gets pissed and says Norway were foolish "TO NOT GIVE ME THE NOBEL PEACE PRIZE…..IVE ENDED 8 WARS"

    The UK confirm they too were part of a joint US \ UK operation to take over the Marinera oil tanker.

    The US confirms its taken over a second oil tanker

    A senior politician in Putins party calls trumps oil tanker takeover "Outright Piracy"

    Marco Rubio will meet Denmark & Greenland next week

    And its only 5pm



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,385 ✭✭✭Mefistofelino


    The US Coast Guard cutter that was tracking the tanker has a heli-deck and a hangar. Presume it was launched from there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,254 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    20260107_165712.jpg

    The Tankers path. At the rate event's are unfolding Trump will announce this evening it's being towed back to Greenland, USA.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭swiwi_


    you forget to say everyone is ignoring Russia. They can squeal all they like what can they do? They’re tied up in a war of their own making dvd their power outside of that is rapidly diminishing



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,835 ✭✭✭Dubh Geannain


    The crew don't have to be Russian. The significance won't be lost on anyone (especially Putin) that the ship was flagged Russian and Russia requested the pursuit cease. And RT have reported it too. They'll try blame NATO than the US probably.

    As someone said it's not for Ukraines benefit it was done but a toothless Russian response here should embolden Euoroean nations confronted with Russian navy escorted shadow fleet tankers. Gives Russia something else to worry about beyond Ukraine. Is losing their power projection worth the next few blood stained kms of Ukrainian soil?

    Update: Levitt just referred to it as a Venezuelan shadow fleet vessel.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,150 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    Would a Navy Ship have been able to get that far out that quickly? The choppers only arrived in the past couple of days? Where's our resident US military mole??



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,062 ✭✭✭Ozymandius2011


    Its reported by the ISW that Russia may formulate a tactical doctrine for military motorbikes. They are increasingly seen on the battlefield, probably due to massive Russian losses of tanks and APCs.

    Kings and Generals channel has estimated Russian tank losses since 2022 at over 10,000.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,058 ✭✭✭thomil


    He probably wouldn't be allowed to talk about it even if he had detailed information, which I doubt he has. Not because I doubt his competency, but simply because of OPSEC. The helicopters that were recently brought over to the UK belonged to the 160th SOAR, that's Special Operations Aviation Regiment. Those are the guys you send in to do black ops, and you DO NOT talk about black ops. The helicopter seen in one of the pictures earlier on in this thread is an MH-6 'Little Bird', a type that is in use with thew 160th, so that would check out.

    As for the operation itself, it's worth noting that warships routinely operate either without AIS at all or with very limited AIS information, so there might very well have been ships out there that acted as a staging point that we don't know about. My suspicion would be that the special ops team that carried out the boarding was flown directly to whatever ship acted as a staging point as soon as they touched down in the UK, with the 'Little Birds' following as soon as they'd been unloaded and made ready to fly, probably carrying nothing but fuel, and maybe some spare pilots. And yes, Im pretty certain that multiple helicopters were involved in the boarding, at least two, with one providing cover for the boarding team.

    Good luck trying to figure me out. I haven't managed that myself yet!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,835 ✭✭✭Dubh Geannain


    This -

    "In the end, we ourselves created problems, first calling the tanker our own and urging not to touch it, and then, after attempts to capture this tanker, we were unable to do anything to protect it. Once again, it turned out that empty diplomatic statements don't scare anyone anymore. Now all that remains is to evade and complain to the UN.

    An attempt to demonstrate one's strength, not backed by real strength, turned out to be just a joke. "

    -Russian milblogger Military Informant



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 988 ✭✭✭vswr


    no MH-6's were offloaded in the UK. The MH-6's were ship based.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,058 ✭✭✭thomil


    And how did they got to the ship that they operated from? the 160th isn't a ship-based unit, and the MH-6 isn't designed for sustained shipboard use either, so they had to come from somewhere. And it's not like it could be a RAF/Fleet Air Arm helo, since the 160th is the only operator of that type.

    Good luck trying to figure me out. I haven't managed that myself yet!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,873 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,873 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    The heli in the earlier photo is an MH-6 which is used a lot by US special forces. Probably brought to the UK in those C-17s two days ago and perhaps flown off a UK vessel.

    If so, this would be an extremely opportune moment to mention that any move on Greenland would result in the US having no allies on this side of the Atlantic and no ability to do any military ops in the region, unless it's handed back.

    France and the UK should put tripwire forces in Greenland. Someone might be able to explain to the retard that killing troops of two nuclear armed countries would not be a good idea.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,873 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui




  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,706 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    It's a Legend-class (At 4,500 tons, it's a large frigate/small destroyer) cutter near the tanker,, with a helipad. Not impossible for an MH-6 to bounce off a couple of other pad-equipped ships on the way to it.

    There is precedent for flying US Army helicopters off US Navy frigates in the Persian Gulf (Kiowas on Perrys), plus of course major operations on larger ships ((in)famously Schwartzkopf was instructed by the Pentagon to stop it during the Haiti operation because the Army and Navy hadn't come to an agreement on how to pay for the fuel… he ignored the instruction), so a Coast Guard Cutter wouldn't be a stretch. But in this case, if it's an SF pilot, I doubt he even needs the precedent. It's a really small helicopter, and he's probably a really good pilot.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,873 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    I wonder if the Marinera/Bella is carrying a lot of gold?

    We'll soon know … if it's taken to Miami.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,058 ✭✭✭thomil


    There's talk in the Military forum of the RFA Tideforce, a fleet oiler belonging to the Royal Fleet Auxiliary, also being involved in the operation. Would honestly make more sense as a jumping off point than a coast guard cutter, even one that's got the size of a frigate and the displacement of a WW2 light cruiser, simply because it's a larger, more stable ship with a much larger flight deck. Also, RFA Tideforce was already working with the task force that followed the tanker, so she would have been in the area anyway.

    One thing that's worth keeping in mind regardless of which ships were used is the weather. Even though the North Atlantic wasn't at its worst during the operation, we're still talking about temperatures around or below freezing, with potential snowfall or freezing rain. You don't want to be having any personnel on the outside of a helicopter any longer than you'd absolutely have to, especially given the rotor downdraft and the 100 mph airstream during cruise flight. I don't care ow well trained of an operator you are, there's no way you'll be combat read in any way shape or form after several hours of that!

    So whatever ship was used, I continue to hold that the helicopter that conducted the boarding operation arrived at its jump-off point empty and that the boarding team had been airlifted to said ship earlier, likely using that ship's own embarked helicopter.

    Good luck trying to figure me out. I haven't managed that myself yet!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,230 ✭✭✭Field east




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,230 ✭✭✭Field east


    I wonder if the US would have been able to carry out the task of boarding that a Russian tanker after the US had invaded Greenland and NATO to all intents and purposes no longer existed - yes in name only but rendered totally toothless. L

    For this exercise the UK provided whatever assistance was needed and it seemed to be quite significant. Does Trump not realise that the west - EU, UK , Japan, et al- is there to ‘help’ when called on?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 988 ✭✭✭vswr


    suspected they were sitting in the USCG cutter that has been shadowing it the last 2 weeks.

    That, or was transferred to another ship which set off from Iceland (RFA Tideforce was confirmed used in support, not sure on their movements at the moment though).



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,200 ✭✭✭Hoop66


    I read that UK aircraft were involved in refuelling, but I don't know if helicopters can do mid-air refuelling. Be a tricky job if they can.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,384 ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    It's all a side show anyway…

    When the U.S. invades/annexes Greenland, NATO is dead and Putin gets what he wants… a 'version' of NATO without the U.S.

    That's how Trump is lining it up… (Give me Greenland, or we're out).

    G-EkzBRbcAAIlqg.png

    The U.S. need Greenland for security against Russia & China (the same Russia that Trump says won't take any more of Ukraine once they are given a fifth of it, but America still needs protecting from them?) - Denmark said if the U.S. wants to build more military bases in Greenland they would facilitate it.

    The U.S. want to mine the rare earth minerals in Greenland: Denmark said, ok, go ahead, we've had a look and we are not interested, but if U.S. Companies want to come and explore/extract, we will facilitate them.

    The U.S. must still have Greenland, and will take it by force if necessary: NATO is over and Putin wins

    Post edited by AndyBoBandy on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,036 ✭✭✭rogber


    It's been a crazy decade and no sign it will get any better as we move towards 2030



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,150 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    It really has actually, when you think about it. 2020 and the first mutterings of something called the 'corona virus' seems like only a couple of years ago, not 6. And its been non-stop turmoil since then. When the dust settles I think we'll find that the mega rich got a lot richer during all this instability while nobody was looking. A lot of strokes being pulled I'd say.

    I'd love to see Ukraine pull off something big in the next couple of weeks to reinforce the sense of Emperors New Clothes about Putin and Russia.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,036 ✭✭✭rogber


    A decade dominated by Trump, Xi, Putin and other awful men politically, while yet other awful men like Zuckerberg, Musk and the other tech guys do their best to automate all our jobs while they themselves get richer and richer, all while climate change races ahead and is basically being completely ignored.

    Things took a very wrong turn somewhere and instead of reversing we just seem to accelerate.

    Will we be rid of these awful leaders by 2030? Let's hope so. But I suspect at least some of them will still be around



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,384 ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    I've said it before, and will say it again…

    "We are currently living in the timeline where Biff got the Almanac"

    Doc Brown & Marty need to get their asses back here and fix this mess!!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,058 ✭✭✭thomil


    There are a few problems with that scenario. The cutter only has hangar space for one helicopter, and that would have been its own embarked helo. Given that the cutter was involved in regular coast guard operations prior to the current situation, they would have had their MH-65 onboard, and taking on an extra MH-6 would have meant tying that down on the flight deck after landing and leaving it exposed. Not a great choice for a helicopter that hasn’t been hardened against corrosion.

    Replacing the embarked MH-65 with a special forces helicopter entirely would have caused a different type of headache. Yes, it’s small enough to fit into the cutter’s hangar, but that’s about the only thing speaking for it. Basically, the MH-6 Little Bird has landing skids instead of a landing gear, making it hard, if not impossible to move it around the deck. It also lacks any type of RAST (Recovery Assist Securing & Traversing) compatibility, meaning that any type of landing in less than ideal sea state would be “interesting”, as would be moving the helicopter around the flight deck, even if you had some wheels aboard to attach to the skids. RAST systems allow for helicopters to be automatically hauled down onto a flight deck in rough seas, and to be moved from the deck to the hangar whilst still being tied down. You can see one such system in the photo below, it’s what the grooves in the flight deck and the white box under the helicopter are for. It’s called Beartrap and I took that picture aboard HMCS St. John’s, Canadian frigate that visited Cork back in 2013:

    DSCF5089.jpeg

    Is it impossible to simply land an MH-6 on a frigate flight deck and tie it down the old fashioned way, with straps and wires attached to tie down spots in the deck? No, not really. But it’s not a long term solution. You don’t want to do that for more than a few hours if at all possible.

    That’s why I believe that the Brits were more involved than they’re letting on. RFA Tideforce is a pretty large ship, it’s going to naturally move less in the waves, making it easier to land on and for any helos to be handled on deck. The flight deck is significantly larger, designed to take Chinooks, so it’s overall a more forgiving platform to land on. Moreover, its hangar can accommodate helicopters up to the size of a Merlin, which is more than large enough to get the entire boarding team, their equipment, and any support personnel, onto the ship in a single flight. That makes RFA Tideforce the best possible jumping off point for the type of operation we’ve just seen.

    Good luck trying to figure me out. I haven't managed that myself yet!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 988 ✭✭✭vswr


    They were working MH-6's off barges in the gulf before, they've fit one inside 2x longwheel base vans and driven into an ops area. You can fit 3x in the hanger space that would be required for 1x MH65.

    That cutter had more than enough space for 2 in their hanger. Landing on a cutter is well within the flight skills of a SO Pilot.

    Whether it came from there, is another matter, and we'll find out over the next few days.

    There are reports UK SOF were also involved, so I'm leaning to helo's coming from Iceland, refuelling on Tideforce, and then onto the ship

    edit: also reports of USS Lewis B Pullar being used

    Post edited by vswr on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,150 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    Its the power held in the background by the Tech Bros that has me worried - they have the ability to sway public sentiment in terms of elections, to manoeuvre their preferred candidate into office.

    The amount of people who decry attempts by the EU to regulate and tighten up Big Tech power on social media and the web as being some kind of power-grab akin to Stalin in the USSR is crazy. Big Tech is making billionaires out of millionaires and trillionaires out of billionaires right before our eyes. The sheer incompetence of the likes of Musk, firing off drug-fuelled rants on social media instead of behaving with the decorum and balance you'd expect from someone in his position, is crazy. Yet it's the beurocrats in Brussels and any politician daring to take a centrist view on things that gets it in the neck.

    Junkie Tech Bros and Autocrats worth billions who openly aspire to minimising civil liberties = GOOOOOOD.

    Beurocrats and elected politicians in liberal democracies attempting to safeguard the rights of the average citizen = BAAAAAD.

    Putin who is evidently an insanely wealthy man off the back of leveraging corruption in Russia over the quarter of a century he's kept an iron grip on power = Nice guy, defending conservative values, just misunderstood.

    Zelensky who is evidently a man who entered politics from a pretty humble position (not too many millionaire comics in Ukraine I'd have thought), was democratically elected and has stood by his fellow countrymen and women in the face of invading war criminals = somehow a secret billionaire Jewish Nazi who desperately wants to retain power in a war torn country and undermine conservative values.

    Literally (very angry) turkeys voting for Christmas, expect that they'll drag us all to the abattoir with them.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,058 ✭✭✭thomil


    I'm aware of their operations in the Gulf during the Iran-Iraq war, but I'd argue that comparing that to operations in the North Atlantic is comparing apples to oranges. The Gulf is a far more benign theatre of operations meteorologically speaking. For starters, it's effectively an enclosed area The Strait of Hormuz essentially neutralises the long-period swell that is present in the world's oceans, making for a much calmer operating environment. Meanwhile, the North Atlantic is never really still. That ocean swell is always going to be there, even in calm weather. And the North Atlantic is rarely calm this time of year. There's a reason RAST and haul down systems were developed primarily by navies operating in the North Atlantic. I don't doubt that the pilots of the 160th have the skill to pull it off, but I just find the coast guard scenario unlikely.

    Mind you, I've been up there personally, so I'm partially also speaking from experience here. Mind you, I had it easy. The ship I was on rarely strayed far from the Norwegian coast, had a pretty high displacement (11,000 tons) and was equipped with stabilisers, and even so, the ship moved a lot the moment we entered any body of water that was open to the Atlantic, or later the Barents Sea. Even the comparatively mild seas that are currently being reported from the area, between 2-5 meters, are not to be trifled with. I've experienced those personally.

    As for fitting two Little Birds into the hangar of a Bertholf-class cutter, that depends on whether the cutter had disembarked its own MH-65. Given that the cutter in question had been involved in regular coast guard operations prior to the whole tanker situation kicking off, I doubt that this was the case. I also doubt that we'll ever find out any major details about the operation, especially if the Royal Navy or Royal Fleet Auxiliary were involved. That's not the kind of information you generally want to put out, especially when such a secretive unit as the 160th is involved.

    Good luck trying to figure me out. I haven't managed that myself yet!



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