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Orange is the new Burke

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 564 ✭✭✭Mr_A


    On and on we go, now the family just show up at the High Court and demand priority over others. Interesting to see he instructed Gardaí to be present.

    Judge allows Enoch Burke to initiate action against disciplinary appeals panel


    https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/judge-allows-enoch-burke-to-initiate-action-against-disciplinary-appeals-panel-1848966.html



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    I don't understand any of this. On what grounds can he begin proceedings against the panel?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,324 ✭✭✭Hibernicis


    “I am not going to put up with any more of your nonsense’, Mr Justice David Nolan tells Burke family”

    Irish Times has the same story. Looks like they are finally running out of road and judicial tolerance.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2026/01/05/judge-directs-gardai-to-attend-enoch-burke-hearing/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 564 ✭✭✭Mr_A


    Because if they don't get their way they will throw hissy fit after hissy fit after hissy fit after hissy fit in every court in the land until the despicable idea of showing basic human decency to a trans kid is defeated once and for all.

    Or something.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,132 ✭✭✭keeponhurling


    There's actually a condition called "Querulant delusion"

    This link explains it somewhat. So no surprise to see the Burkes launching yet again appeal.

    The Functional Impairment is right on the money for Enoch

    4. Functional Impairment

    • Occupational Disruption: Time and energy diverted from work to legal pursuits, leading to job loss or economic strain.
    • Social Alienation: Friends and family withdraw due to conflict, legal threats, or emotional exhaustion.
    • Legal Consequences: Repeated litigation may lead to sanctions, financial penalties, or contempt charges.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,381 ✭✭✭✭kneemos




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,316 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    it is more than that. The WestBoro Baptist church are as fanatical as anybody but they wont engage in the same tactics as the Burkes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 37,414 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    The interesting comparison there is that the WBC have plenty of lawyers in their midst, and so they know how far they can push things and when to pull back because getting in legal trouble is ultimately going to be far more hassle than it's worth.

    The Burkes also have lawyers/solicitors, and yet they just belt on and nearly seem to welcome/invite legal trouble because they're so intent on trying to show they're being discriminated against and victimised, and that even knowing what the law is, their opinions and beliefs supercede the law.

    Absolute crackpots.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,316 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    exactly. religious fanaticism alone does not explain their behaviour



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,316 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,332 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 87 ✭✭Torcaill




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 890 ✭✭✭Morris Garren


    So-- what is he trying to prove? What leg is he standing on. Hard to know what his angle is. Any insights? Why does the panel not just declare its findings?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 37,414 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    The panel would have been due to declare their findings soon. His application is purely designed to stop that from happening and drag it out longer, arguing that "…panel hearings had been to date devoid of “any sense of natural justice and fair procedures.”", which is laughable coming from a guy who Christmas Joy has been Mountjoy due to his repeated refusal to adhere to court rulings.

    He wants the people on the panel who decided his appeal to recuse themselves, and a new panel to sit and decide his case.

    Once they do, he will want the people on the panel who decided his appeal to recuse themselves, and a new panel to sit and decide his case.

    Once they do, he will want the people on the panel who decided his appeal to recuse themselves, and a new panel to sit and decide his case.

    Once they do, he will want the people on the panel who decided his appeal to recuse themselves, and a new panel to sit and decide his case.

    Once they do, he will want the people on the panel who decided his appeal to recuse themselves, and a new panel to sit and decide his case.

    And so on, until he feels he'll either get the result he wants, or until the courts decide he's dragging it out intentionally and refuse him, at which point he can start crying about being mistreated by the courts.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,475 ✭✭✭youtheman


    Hopefully on Thursday the Judge will say "Well Mr. Burke, please present your case". Enoch will behave (for once, because it's in his best interest to play ball at this stage of the match). He'll present his argument. Then the Judge will say "Having given due consideration, I rule there is no case etc.". Then Enoch and family will throw their toys out of the pram as per usual !. Ground Hog Day !.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,332 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    It certainly gives the court leeway to shut down any argument he presents on Thursday. I assume he might be needed there in person. The family can do all the crying they want and it wont make a bit of difference as he is the person doing the appealing. It just gives them the chance to act with contempt of court behaviour and all that risks them at a personal level.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭hoodie6029


    I think the Burkes are using the American playbook of not acknowledging the power devolved to government departments and local authorities etc. The reason this is done in the US is the get the case to a court where a sympathetic judge is likely to rule in their favour. 

    Whereas here, that’s unlikely. Yes, the Burkes have had some wins over the years. 2 spring to mind,  a delayed viva and differences in marking for home schooled LC students. Not exactly earth shattering, constitutionally challenging stuff. 

    The Burkes hope they’ll win this next battle, and the Appeal Board will be ruled unconstitutional but all it will do is delay the inevitable.

    The Courts here have time and again found the constitutionality of bodies like Workplace Relations etc to make decisions that are binding. 

    This is water. Inspiring speech by David Foster Wallace https://youtu.be/DCbGM4mqEVw?si=GS5uDvegp6Er1EOG



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,332 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    From RBSC Tool on facebook: https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rte.ie%2Fnews%2Fireland%2F2026%2F0106%2F1551726-enoch-burke-court%2F%3Ffbclid%3DIwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTAAYnJpZBEwazdwT1ZJME45REJENVh6OXNydGMGYXBwX2lkEDIyMjAzOTE3ODgyMDA4OTIAAR6E2SiXuTynKi7Oy3Bz9Qnr9AkxjJrz7k13XfiFia6qL4MvvoB4EOWBbaW_iQ_aem_GHJbeCaTIKZo3uPTy3Qv5A&h=AT3riKMFhozvy0owcCN3XvMGHBQX4yDpdYXaGpDAEUxngtWNxttWT4tQiHIxYKMhK9OTSE10RbafVy_Ff7nOGxqKP4Izi2zvQK1Wg09uaG20GHzcej0eN3ILdhcta5_1TpQgE0QOTretRYyJWAzZ93htoQdafA&tn=-UK-R&c[0]=AT3_kUAZUx-Brlz8C6qhrMqhuvquIw6LAudoLKW8mWvG2yi4JYzCYTe_fnNgnhDEt2cWaOr34vZXHl10_N24e9lkwTI_gpP6mu5PgRXLg-TelgTuXBmXONe3_qXf4s5HWM4CP3ddrWSkGlMAjnmbMa0Fk11vEsunNPTuLl6PWXHcH_yOQ6khjkVFSr7ZsR2LmJRGJ0_XbP1c-eAp-hXG5dwNGld869k

    image.png

    I am not sure if the link above will work, It's the one on the posted F/B post.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 564 ✭✭✭Mr_A


    How does the appeal panel get represented in court? Presumably the school or department of Education step in to help there? Just wondering the logistics of that element. Very short notice to try to mount some form of defense.

    Also could you imagine how the Burkes would react (well of course you can) if court proceeded without them present..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,316 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    That is exactly what he did the last time which resulted in the most recent panel. I doubt it will work a second time.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,316 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Any victories have come when they had proper legal representation. Any time they engage in burkery™ they lose.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,949 ✭✭✭BK5


    I feel very sorry for the people who have to serve on these panels if this is the way Enoch and his crew are allowed treat them. These are Irish working people who pay taxes, how the f**k can supporters of the Burkes claim to be patriots when they can just go around treating everyone who doesn't agree with them like they are dirt on their shoes?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,237 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    Surely any objection to the constitution of the appeals panel should have been made either in his original appeal which was granted in June 2025 or, if not then, between then and the recent disciplinary appeals panel hearing.

    There would want to be a substantial reason for delaying until after the recent disciplinary appeals panel hearing before lodging an objection to its composition.

    He can not have any credible objection against the two members remaining from the original panel. Has he now some valid objection to the new member, selected expressly to overcome Enoch's objection to the composition of the original appeals panel?

    I hope this is seen as and ruled as entirely vexatious filibustering and Enoch is hit with an Isaac Wunder Order.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,332 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    From the wording of his latest appeal it seems he's going after all of the present panel. He is seeking a fresh disciplinary panel which, in the words of his plan, does not include any of the three defendants on the present panel and seems to be hoping that Thursday's High Court hearing will order that a completely fresh panel be got for the next panel hearing. Scroll up to my last at 5.17 PM - Para 1 in large print.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 815 ✭✭✭chrisd2019


    He is probably in his tonight hatching a plan….



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,324 ✭✭✭Hibernicis


    Shane Phelan and Ray Managh's report in the Indo gives an outline of Burke's grounds for seeking injunctive relief.

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/enoch-burke-may-take-legal-challenge-against-disciplinary-appeal-panel/a126075496.html

    Specifically (I've highlighted the reported grounds in bold):

    In the latest legal proceedings in the saga, Mr Burke is seeking declarations that the manner in which the December 13 hearing was conducted was “unfair, unreasonable, unlawful and contrary to natural justice and fair procedures”.

    In a legal filing, he claims the hearing was ended abruptly and prematurely while he was in the middle of cross examining a witness.

    Mr Burke also claims the panel refused to receive a series of affidavits in relation to what he alleges were errors in a disciplinary report prepared by then principal Niamh McShane.

    Another key issue for Mr Burke was the presence of Ms O’Brien on the panel.

    The teacher previously successfully challenged the presence of ASTI general secretary Kieran Christie on the panel.

    Last year, the Court of Appeal accepted there were grounds for saying a reasonable observer would have a reasonable apprehension of objective bias from Mr Christie because of comments and actions made by the ASTI in relation to "transgenderism".

    In an affidavit, Mr Burke said that in advance of the December DAP hearing, he had objected to Ms O’Brien’s nomination as Mr Christie’s replacement.

    His objections were rejected by the DAP.

    According to his affidavit, Mr Burke questioned Ms O’Brien at the December hearing about a September 2022 ASTI statement in which the union said it would advise schools to use pronouns that a child wishes to be used.

    Mr Burke said he asked Ms O’Brien if she agreed with the statement. He said she responded that as a teacher she “would have to be directed” by her principal in relation to what to call a particular child if the issue arose.

    According to Mr Burke, she said that if she were instructed by the principal, she would have to implement the instruction.

    Mr Burke argued that in light of this, a reasonable and impartial observer would have “a grave concern” that Ms O’Brien could not approach his appeal from a neutral and unbiased standpoint.

    In the affidavit, he went on to claim that Mr Ó Longáin told him he could not cross-examine witnesses.

    He claims that after objecting to this, Mr Ó Longáin said he would only allow some questions, through the chair, and that only questions permitted by the DAP would be put to witnesses.

    Mr Burke claims he was repeatedly stymied by interruptions from the DAP while questioning Ms McShane and former board of management chair John Rogers.

    He claims that questions about alleged factual errors in the disciplinary report compiled by Ms McShane were “closed down” by Mr Ó Longáin.

    Mr Burke further claims the hearing was ended while he was in the middle of cross examining Ms McShane.

    This has many similarities to the approach he took when he went to the High Court in December 2023 looking for an injunction blocking the original DAP, and while he failed to get it then, it was subsequently granted by the COA in July 2025. In the COA case, he advanced six grounds of appeal in his notice of appeal. The Court of Appeal, with some reluctance it has to be said, sided with him. In addition to stopping the DAP process in its tracks, he succeeded in delaying the proceedings by two years. Based on the Indo report, the grounds advanced in yesterday's hearing are different to the last time around, but nonetheless were sufficient for Mr Justice Barry O’Donnell to allow Burke to proceed with his application for a temporary injunction. While we can happily rant about the Burkes collective appalling behaviour etc they have sharp minds and steely focus and the what looks like less than stellar conduct of the DAP process overall has presented them with something of an open goal. If Burke is successful in his application for a temporary injunction this will almost inevitable be followed by a permanent injunction. Which will in turn be followed by one of two things, either a complete restart of the DAP process with a freshly constituted panel, or an abandonment of the process.

    This case appears to be far from over, and as it stands Burke is far from being the obvious loser

    If anybody is interested, this is the link to the July 2025 judgement in the COA. It is a dense 90 page read but it does show that buffoonery and appalling conduct aside, the Burkes are quite a force to be reckoned with when they behave themselves.

    https://ww2.courts.ie/acc/alfresco/f2a33d3d-b704-468d-b6d9-555fc944523a/2025_IECA_148-1.pdf/pdf#view=fitH

    Post edited by Hibernicis on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,476 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    If allowed to again overturn the makeup of a panel, he will continue to challenge any and every makeup of a panel, because anyone qualified to be on it will have said something he will scream to a judge about.

    And if a panel is ever able to fire him, he'll go the WRC and make scenes there, and the courts again - though we know the path there is short, from his sister's attempts.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,324 ✭✭✭Hibernicis


    His grounds appear far wider than the composition of the panel and go right to the heart of the way the DAP conducted it’s business. If his claims are substantiated and accepted by the High Court the outcome of his application for injunctive relief is a forgone conclusion.


    If the the second DAP proceedings are stopped, it could well be the end. It’s a general you can’t go on hearing the same case repeatedly as you start to run the risk of double jeopardy, undue burden, stigmatisation, etc. Two bites of the cherry is often considered just about reasonable.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,154 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    he wants the can kicked down the road again so him and his moronic supporters can continue claiming he still technically works in the school.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,949 ✭✭✭BK5


    It's great that he has the hypocrisy to use the words unfair, unreasonable, unlawful and fair procedures in his application. Talk about living in a world of your own.

    If he is successful with this, I hope the judge stays strong and never lets him out of jail until he respects the rule of law both ways.



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