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Venezuela

1568101139

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,147 ✭✭✭Randycove


    keep fighting the good fight comrade. The west is evil and decadent and must be destroyed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,630 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    Yes. That why I mentioned it's more than likely many of these kind of responses are insincere rather than being pure naivety, as you mention they have always known but turned a blind eye to it because it suited them very well. America wouldn't care if he was the rightful leader or not if he followed the script.

    With this in mind American governments have also desposed of legitimate leaders around the world when it suited. The moral is as long as you are a compliant leader, who goes along with US interests, you can run your country whichever way you want- even if you order the chopping up of a critic, well then it will be just hand waived away as an internal dispute you had no idea about.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,221 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    It's up to the people of Venezuela to sort that out. If there was no oil, Trump wouldn't care. The world order is shattering and some people are cheering it on.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth house?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,927 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,649 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,630 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    I got a good laugh reading a tweet saying this was all about being tough on crime and holding drug dealing criminals to account. Which of course explains why Donnie pardoned a convicted drug dealer a few weeks back. Maybe if Maduro cuts a deal with Donnie he will get a pardon too and be quietly shipped off to another country at some stage.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,058 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    The people of Venezuela voted him out. It didn't do them much good though.

    I don't support the action, it was not done for any altruistic reasons and it can potentially cause untold problems, but that's an insanely callous attitude to a humanitarian crisis that has already caused millions to have to flee their homes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,364 ✭✭✭Tazz T


    He can't without the release of all the evidence Putin has on him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,354 ✭✭✭aidanodr


    @briany said:

    I've thought that the US, Russia and Chine will eventually come to an arrangement where they're each allowed to boss their geographic neighbourhood without foreign interference or condemnation from the other. I think this may be the beginning of that… If China can invade Taiwan with no pushback, that'll seal it.

    Its called SPHERE OF INFLUENCE apparently

    "Trump’s 2025 National Security Strategy is grounded in this perception of overreach. It signals a deliberate turn toward a more realist, sphere-of-influence-based framework: consolidating U.S. power in regions of vital importance, retrenching from peripheral commitments, and preventing the emergence of rival regional hegemons—particularly in East Asia. This approach suggests a recalibration of American strategy away from global primacy and toward a more selective, interest-driven posture."

    So Trumps/US sphere is the Americas basically. Putin/Russia sphere is Europe. Then Xi/China sphere is Asia/pacific. Trump, Putin, Xi rule you and me and the world .. this is where we are going perhaps. Be interesting to see if Trump goes at all the South americam countries now and also Greenland, maybe canada eventually



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,151 ✭✭✭For Petes Sake


    I love how appropriate your sig is on a day like today.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,221 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Only the people of Venezuela can sort out their country. It's always the way. The US will only have their self interests at play i.e. Oil. It will stay as corrupt as ever and with US support.

    Or do you see this as another US success story like Afghanistan, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Guatamala?

    I don't recall Trump snatching Netanyahu when there was a much worse humanitarian crisis in Gaza.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth house?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,354 ✭✭✭aidanodr


    And this is the law in all this in the US & Internationally:

    https://twitter.com/AttorneyGriggs/status/2007447919952048516

    Just to ground the conversation about the Military action in #Venezuela

    The US Constitution vests the power to declare war in Congress. No single individual has the authority to commit the nation to a war of regime change without congressional authorization.

    UN Charter Art. 2(4) is clear: states must not use force against another nation’s sovereignty. Capturing a foreign leader on another country’s soil—without consent—is generally a violation of international law.

    Under the Supremacy Clause of the U.S. Constitution (Article VI, Clause 2):

    “This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made… shall be the supreme Law of the Land…”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,368 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    This is not an invasion. Maduro was on borrowed time. US is not going to take over.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,368 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    Trump wants Venezuela to shine, for the country to elect it's leaders , for the billions to trickle down.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,063 ✭✭✭Ozymandius2011


    Reports Maduro has been captured by the US.

    Trump has confirmed this. Trump also saying the US would be strongly involved in the country's oil industry. As bad as Maduro is, I personally think this is the main reason this is happening.

    AG Pam Bondi saying Maduro and his wife "will soon face the full wrath of American soil in American courts".

    However, Defence Minister saying his country would resist and claims some civilian areas have been hit.

    The Opposition won the legislative elections last year but Maduro ignored them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,630 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    Yes. Indeed. The war in Ukraine has proven the sheer gulf in capbilities between the Russian military and the US. I remember in the years prior to the Ukraine war reading about how formidable the Russian army is. In reality they are a joke of an Army, but when you fill your senior ranks with corrupt yes men it's hardly that surprising either



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,716 ✭✭✭combat14


    its all about the narcos or is it..

    Trump says US will be 'very strongly involved' in Venezuela oil industry

    The United States is going to be “very strongly involved” in Venezuela’s oil industry after the operation to capture Venezuelan leader Nicolás Maduro, President Donald Trump told Fox News on Saturday.

    He said:

    We have the greatest oil companies in the world, the biggest, the greatest, and we’re going to be very much involved in it.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,706 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    My first thought as well.

    The international community were not best pleased at the US invading a country and capturing its leader to put him on trial, folks saying "this is the end of global order as we know it" seem to have forgotten that we have been here before. (And, frankly, if the world really did care a lot about such a thing, if would have reacted a bit more strongly over Russia's invasion of Ukraine.). Similarly, the OAS in particular was not happy with the US invasion of Grenada.

    However, the US invasion of Panama was at the time supported by the overwhelming majority of Panamanians who apparently cared more about the practical effect of who was being dictator over them than what the international community felt about the principle of the thing.

    There seem to be two practical differences here. In the case of Panama, it was a conventional invasion and occupation. This was a raid, thus making it less "extreme". In the other hand, after the invasion of Panama, the US were able to dissolve Noriega's miltary and install the President elect. Venezuela still has the same sorts people in charge so to the average Venezuelan there is likely to be less of an improvement (which also implies that if this was about oil, I can't see how the next-in-line will be sure to be more amenable to US interests). This seems to have been about Maduro and only about Maduro. Though i suspect whoever comes next is going to be very circumspect about his next moves.

    On a technical level, though, this was impressive action showing just how capable the US miltary remains.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,063 ✭✭✭Ozymandius2011


    The fall of this regime will also be a blow to Russia's evasion of the oil sanctions, and the flow of Venezuelan mercenaries fighting for Russia.

    It will also be a blow for the Cuban regime, which was propped up with Venezuelan oil under Chavez and Maduro (at least before the collapse of the economy). The costs of giving Cuba cheaper oil was criticised as a factor in the economic crisis.

    • Beginning in the early 2000s, Venezuela supplied Cuba with heavily discounted oil (often ~90,000 barrels/day at its peak).
    • In return, Cuba sent doctors, teachers, intelligence advisers, and security personnel to Venezuela.
    • Cuba could resell part of the oil on the open market, giving it hard currency — crucial after the Soviet Union collapsed.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,740 ✭✭✭Infini


    Oil? Terrorists? Republicans in charge again?

    sigh

    Plays the theme song again

    On A Serious note Maduro lost the last election, refused to leave, oppressed the opposition and Venezuelans escaped to claim Asylum in America. Even the opposition was asking for him to be removed by force even though the whole thing is a circus atm. Probably was the only way of getting rid of him but the current admin are like a bull in a China shop, they're going to make a mess of the whole thing as usual.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,649 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    Lol

    1000093404.jpg

    Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,740 ✭✭✭Infini




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,063 ✭✭✭Ozymandius2011


    Reports Maduro on a US warship headed for New York.

    Israel welcoming the operation. Accusing Maduro of "heading a network of drugs and terror".

    Opposition figure Marina Machado says this will "bring order to Venezuela" and could lead to the freeing of political prisoner. She also says that Edmondo Gonzalez should assume the presidency.

    Cuban regime has called for (probably orchestrated) protests. Sky showing them now.

    Russia, France, Brazil criticising the operation. Yesterday, Russia asked the US to stop pursuing a sanctioned vessel.

    The Russian foreign ministry said in a statement:

    We are extremely alarmed by reports that Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro and his wife were forcibly removed from the country as a result of today’s US aggression. We call for an immediate clarification of the situation.

    Earlier, Venezuela’s vice-president, Delcy Rodríguez, said the US needed to provide “proof of life” for Maduro.

    France says the operation breaks international law. Brazil said



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,059 ✭✭✭thomil


    It's also worth pointing out that the US had direct and legitimate interests in Panama. The US's presence in, and control of, the Panama Canal Zone was enshrined in a bilateral treaty between the US and Panama, signed after Panama had split from Colombia, which changed the legal situation somewhat. That's not the case with Venezuela.

    Good luck trying to figure me out. I haven't managed that myself yet!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,740 ✭✭✭Infini


    Cubans are not a surprise since they hate the Americans but then again they likely aren't happy because someone pointed out Venezuela is how they got hard currency since the 2000's. Probably the fallout going to hit them harder.

    Russia? pff they're just uppity because they'd lose a regional ally in all of this but then again they're spinning the drain in more ways than one these days and lost all legitimacy a long time ago so feck em. France and Brazil criticising is probably more a position of realpolitik than anything else. Having Maduro removed was probably the only option its rather the how they did it rather that's going to be the issue as it creates fallout that they're going to be forced to deal with on other issues. You can bet the Chinese might get notions on this though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,927 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    Just because they're not likely to occupy the country with their army does not mean that they won't be in control.

    I'm sure if the Venezuelan people got what they actually wanted it would be to oust Madura, end sanctions and keep control of their own country's natural resources.

    Trump has literally said out loud that he sees the Venezuelan oil as American oil so any new leader will need to be ok with that or else they'll be ousted as well.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,216 ✭✭✭wildgreen


    Now that you have restored democracy to Venezuela, who are you going to appoint as its next President?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,147 ✭✭✭Randycove


    how about open elections maybe. Give a Nobel winner the chance of running without being murdered?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,216 ✭✭✭wildgreen


    What is very telling is the media use of the words captured Maduro. They kidnapped him in a terrorist raid and we don't know yet know about how many innocent fatalities there were to enforce US imperialism.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,442 ✭✭✭brickster69


    I think every person who take office takes an oath to uphold the constitution as well as the military. Looks like a few people broke that oath.

    The old world is dying, and the new world struggles to be born: now is the time of monsters. — Antonio Gramsci



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