Advertisement
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.
Hi all, please see this major site announcement: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058427594/boards-ie-2026

Northern Ireland 2125?

1143144146148149188

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,546 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    If you did not forget a thing then you are trying to mislead or else being stupid. Because the transition to a UI is only guaranteed in the GFA IF a majority in both jurisdictions ( N.I. and Rep of I ) want a U.I. and vote for that.

    It is quite conceivable such a vote may never pass, so therefore your hoped for transition to a U.I. may never ( some may say probably never ) pass.

    The transition to me owning a luxury beach-front villa in the sun is only guaranteed IF I come in a large amount of money (eg lottery win) and I have the health to enjoy it.

    The transition from your someones uncle becoming their aunt is only guaranteed if they have a sex change operation.

    None of those things - (a) vote in N.I. for a U.I.,

    (b) vote in Republic of Ireland to take on N.I. ( in the fifties the UK rejected Malta becoming part of the UK even though Malta voted to join the UK),

    (c) me winning the lotto etc

    (d) sex change operation

    are guaranteed to happen , but of course if they do they will have consequences. It is conceivable there will NEVER be a border poll. Adams said 25 years ago Ireland would be united by 2016. Did'nt happen.

    Have any other states in the world ever voted to join each other? I'm thinking of Haita and the Dominican Republic, both share the same island, but no talks of "re-unification" there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,062 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Why would there be a ‘transition’ if there was no majority vote? As I said if discussing the GFA it is assumed you would know the basic tenets of the GFA.

    You are chasing your tail here.

    And I am not facilitating that any more.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,546 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    You wrote, a number of times. "The transition to a UI is guaranteed in the GFA"

    The GFA does not guarantee a U.I., or the transition to one. Because it is quite conceivable there will never be a border poll. Or if there is one, sometime way in the future, it may very well have the same result as the last border poll : the majority want to stay in the UK.

    There is a huge difference in saying (a) "The transition to a UI is guaranteed in the GFA" and

    (b) the transition to a UI is guaranteed in the GFA if, in the future, a majority in both jurisdictions ( N.I. and Rep of I ) want a U.I. and vote for that.

    Post edited by Francis McM on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,960 ✭✭✭csirl


    Ireland existed as an all-island unified political entity for a couple of thousand years before the Normans/,British arrived. It had what was, for its time, quite a sophisticated political system. The High King (who was appointed rather than been hereditary) was the Head of State and below him was a system of provincial and local rulers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,062 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    It is such a facile pointless thing to ask 'when Ireland was united'. As if it was going to change anything.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,217 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    It has also been done to death, with myself and several others giving extensively detailed responses only for the usual suspects to ignore it and land back in a few months later repeating themselves.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,062 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Try to keep up. In that very post I said IT WAS an entity under uk control.
    I’ll not hold my breath for an apology



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    You are mistaking a change in administration for a change in sovereignty. The Crown didn’t go anywhere in 1973.

    IF you had integrity, you would be busy tonight apologising for all your mistakes.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Well if you want to get pedantic, what I meant was continual authority. The point still stands that, in the entire world, you can count on one hand any other places that had longer continual authority. That’s pretty remarkable



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    you make my point for me.
    The Normans didn’t “invade” a unified country — they accepted an invitation from one Irish king who was fighting other Irish kings. That could only happen because there was no single authority able to say no, and no unified force to stop it afterwards. If Ireland had been a coherent all-island state, that situation simply wouldn’t have arisen.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,062 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    That’s pretty remarkable

    Until you look at how it actually affected those under it's 'authority'. Bigoted sectarian and gerymandered one party rule followed by 30 years of conflict/war followed by failed devolution that an International Agreement can barely keep on life support.

    Remarkable maybe, pretty? No.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    So are you suggesting the Norman’s were not invited onto the island by one of the several kings?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,062 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    About as relevant to 2025 as the Battle Of The Boyne is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    …..and still, with its majority catholic population, its people feel safer, have better quality of life, and feel more secure in the uk. Or else they are stupid

    That’s pretty remarkable to



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,062 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    You have absolutely no data to support that.
    Secure? From a member of a community chewing your leg off at the site of the Irish language. 😁



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,960 ✭✭✭csirl


    Im not sure that authority is the right word. Up to the GFA, the Constitutiion of Ireland claimed sovereignty over the north - so it was disputed. UK certainly didnt fully control the place until then either - if you need a large army to exert domestic authority, and pockets were being run by a paramilitary entuty, you're not really fully in control.

    One of the benefits of the GFA to the UK is that it gave the UK full undisputed control for the first time ever.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    I actually completely agree with you on this point. All those romantic ideas about who owns this place because of who lived here at certain times is total nonsense. we are where we are. The self-determination of the people is what matters



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,960 ✭✭✭csirl


    I disagree. There was full control by the High King. Just that a jilted rival brought in an overseas power to grab power because they couldnt do it themselves. No different to any situation where an opposition leader brought in a super power to overthrow their own government.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    nonsense on a number of points.
    I think there are a few people on this forum might disagree with your assertion that uk authority is not disputed by anyone. And of course Scotland wales etc are the same.
    that does not affect authority. Check who the UN recognises as the authority pre Belfast agreement



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    oh dear, too dear!

    IMG_1823.jpeg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,062 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    So let them determine it.

    Unionism is petrified of a BP because they know they are in decline and have more or less given up trying to persuade on the Union and have bunkered down into culture wars they are losing and will continue to lose



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Unionism has nothing to fear about the result of a border poll. It is beyond doubt that it would be a large win for the union.

    But everyone in Northern Ireland has a lot to fear about a border poll. 

    It is my understanding that once one happens, then it must happen every seven years. That would be an unmitigated disaster for us all and for our slow move towards normal politics.   

    If there is to be a border poll every seven years, then all parties will be focused on that border poll above all else.  We will be taken into a never-ending circle of sectarian/nationalistic politics. We are watching politics become extremely difficult in the last few months simply because there is an election 18 months away.  Can you imagine if we are permanently looking towards the next border poll. 

    So be careful what you wish for.  I can’t speak for your community, but I know that that scenario in our community will drive everyone into the bunkers.  Groups like the orange order will grow, marching disputes will increase, flags issues will become far more divisive. Etc etc. 

    Do you really want us to be perpetually re-running the border question every seven years into eternity?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,062 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    pitiful. Another poster who doesn’t understand the GFA.

    There doesn't ‘ have to be ‘ a BP every 7 years.

    NI isn’t working because of Unionist insecurity and resistence to equality.
    Call in’s and Petitions of Concern are them clinging to their veto.
    There also hasn’t been an election in the modern age if ever that doesn’t drive people into bunkers.
    As to the OO, there is as much chance of it growing as pineapples in the Artic circle.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,448 ✭✭✭mattser


    Grim reading for UI supporters. SoS not exactly topping up their Xmas stockings either 😁



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,546 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Has the penny not dropped yet with you that before a Border Poll is held, people should know what they would be voting for - what it would mean for taxes, pensions, loss of free trade between N.I. and Britain, division of N.I.'s share of UK national debt, possible reduction in NATO territory, flag, anthem, commonwealth, etc?

    Otherwise people would be voting for a pig in a poke. They done that with Brexit : before Brexit, people were told that in the promised land of Brexit there would be £350 million per week extra for the NHS, that groceries and food would be 20% cheaper, that immigration would be solved etc. You are telling us in the promised land of a U.I. all will be better. Trust SF, the party you follow, you say. The same party that earlier this week could not even count the number of properties it owns in their accounts and declare them honestly?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,062 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Always be wary when @downcow posts an image with no link to source.

    This 'grim' reading applies to both sides of the constitutional question, a larger percentage of voters say no to higher tax for maintaining the Union.



    Supporters of the Union were no more willing to dig deep. Among those who said they would vote to remain in the UK, only 11.7 per cent were willing to pay £5,000 a year more in tax, and 16.6 per cent would pay £3,000. In each case, close to two thirds said they would not.

    Voters say no to high tax for a united Ireland

    Just so readers know, This polling is conducted by Peter Shirlow, who tours the circuit advocating for the 'safeguarding of the UK Union'. 'Together UK' is Arlene Foster's initiative afaik

    image.png

    No surprises as to the weight given to certain findings.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,546 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    You are missing the point. The cost of maintaining N.I. is currently spread among the taxpayers of the UK, a G7 nation of 38 million taxpayers. Ireland has just over 2 million people who actually pay income tax, and who the burden of supporting N.I. would fall on in the event of a N.I.

    I would not have expected better maths from you or an honest answer seeing as you support the party that earlier this week could not even count the number of properties it owns in their accounts and declare them honestly.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,062 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The 'cost' of maintaining themselves (taxes they pay) is at issue.

    Not the general taxpayers in the rest of the UK, who incidentally now favour a UI.



Advertisement
Advertisement