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Mass shooting on Bondi Beach

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,462 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Yes, the second shooter was on a bridge 50m to the right and watched as the heroic man grappled with his father. Looks like he fired off a few shots after we saw the disarmed father run back towards where he was and managed to hit Ahmed once or twice in the arm.

    Both men still on that bridge when shot by the police a short time later.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,997 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Thanks. I was wondering about that too. I heard the rifle was out of ammunition too so possibly he couldn't shoot back.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth house?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,997 ✭✭✭Stephen_Maturin




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,595 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    The longer we keep accepting angry Islamists ( even if they have a right to be angry in their own minds and beliefs ) into our country , the more we put our children at risk . 
    I’d rather be called a racist than run the risk of some religious lunatic murder innocent people on the streets of Dublin

    What about angry Christians, or angry Spaniards, or angry Eskimos, or angry drug dealers, or angry Travellers, or angry road users? I'm sure a lot of them are religious.

    And why is it only "the children" who are at risk from all these apparent ne're do wells?

    That you have no issue being called a racist is odd.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,078 ✭✭✭tastyt


    Because like it or not Eskimos , travellers or Spaniards aren’t bombing concerts , stabbing kids outside schools , beheading homosexuals , bombing public transport , running down people at Christmas markets and opening fire on innocent people in the name of Allah



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,595 ✭✭✭dmcdona




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,523 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    I don`t believe a so called Christian country like the U.S. or indeed Britain, can not be said to have played a hand in this radicalizing. For a country than talks so much about democracy the U.S. has shown they are more than happy ignoring it when it suits their agenda.

    They, with Britain, aided in the overthrow of the democratically elected Prime Minister of Iran Mohammad Mossadegh when he nationalised Iran`s oil replacing him with a dictator, the Shah. The U.S. also played a major part in doing the same in Iraq installing Saddam Heusein, similar to Iran, as a dictatorship.

    The Shah`s regime didn`t create any love for the U.S. or by extension their allies in the Middle East, Israel, in Iranians. Neither did the invasion of Iraq and the shltshow that lead to the Iraq- Syria ISIS Calipathe that the Kurds had to eventually clean up by many in the Middle East

    If there is one thing we in Ireland should be able to see, even if we do not condone it, is that a visceral hatred by some of those of another country or countries does not just spring up over night. It come with a long history.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,109 ✭✭✭Pauliedragon


    Opposition leader Sussan Ley is making political statements about government not protecting Jewish people enough. Political points scoring is very poor form in this situation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,180 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Political points scoring

    You only have to look at the first pages of this very thread to see that is what some lust after



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,109 ✭✭✭Pauliedragon


    Bit of a difference though between a few comments on an Irish website compared to the leader of the opposition party of a country that has just had a big terrorist attack.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,835 ✭✭✭OscarMIlde


    That the American government played a major role in what Iran is today, due to their meddling with the Shah, is undeniable. However, the fact that a theocratic dictatorship was able to arise in the wake of those events is due to the fact that there was a significant number of Iranians who wanted a return to fundamentalist Islam.

    If the US had done similar to a European or Western country a theocracy wouldn't have arisen, as the number of fundamentalist religious people in Europe willing to do such a thing is negligible.

    This is not so across the Middle East and North Africa. We have seen time and time again, that any time there is a power vacuum, Islamic fundamentalists try and take power. I'm not excusing or denying that Western (including Russian, it's not just the US and Europe) involvement has destabilised these countries over the years. But it is not the only factor, and people are naive if they think ISIS, the Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas, the Janjaweed, Boko-Haram, Al-Shabaab (to name but a few) arose due to the west alone. Islam in it's most extreme form is a highly prescriptive and militant religion, which means it attracts violent men (and indeed women) looking for a cause at a rate disproportionate to religions such as Christianity.

    “Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.”


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,867 ✭✭✭Ozymandius2011


    I think extremist movements of the religious-nationalist variety tend to arise from revanchism n former imperial powers especially Russia. While probably unlikely, we need to keep an eye on this in the UK with the rise of Reform UK. They don't seem interested in expansionism, but reactionary nationalists sometimes go down that road. The Franco regime in Spain is an exception.

    In the US, anti semitic violence comes from both White Supremacists and Islamic extremists. Efforts to stop it are hampered by the WHs ties to the neo Nazi groups like the Groypers. The other day, Nick Fuentes was on the Piers Morgan Show saying he didn't care about Jewish relatives of a Jewish English journalist having died in the Holocaust. Plans to deliver the swastika and the noise as hare symbols are sending the quest possible signal.

    It's reported 30-40% of young Republicans are Groypers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,148 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    His connection is that a guy he was hanging out with was a local ISIS leader. There was a terror plot foiled by ASIO. The guys involved were arrested.

    The young guy was 18, wasn’t involved. But his name went on a list as a know associate.

    He took a shotgun from the shooter. The shooter ran to the son or the car and collected another firearm. 3 long arms recover at the scene. There was also a DIY explosive device.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,603 ✭✭✭Cyclingtourist




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,148 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    You asked about the connection. I was explaining how he is known to ASIO.

    Whats with the defensive attitude? Fking hell.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,220 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    This is horrendous work by what im sure would claim to be an unbiased impartial journalist, Sherri Markson.

    This must be so difficult for people who have advocated on behalf of Palestinians to be expected to own some sort of responsibility for this attack.

    One of the people killed was reportedly involved with the IDF/Israel and had been pictured with signed artillery which was to be used against Palestine. That was likely a coincident that he was shot here but the manufactured reality in which we live now would suggest that were he rumoured to be involved with Hamas, killing 15 other people in an attack on him would be argued here and elsewhere as being justified.

    But here, a very biased reporter is effectively blaming an MP simply because they attended a pro-Palestine protest.

    This is exactly what has frustrated so many people over the last 2 years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,603 ✭✭✭Cyclingtourist




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 56,666 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    I just saw on Facebook of the murdered Rabbi Eli Slinger alongside IDF soldiers and holding a rifle and a bomb to be used in Gaza. Apparently he was urging the soldiers to carry on with the genocide. Not as holy as we thought.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,220 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,006 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    I heard Emily Hand’s father being interviewed today on the BBC: he said he saw a man of about 80 on crutches who had come into Beeri (their kibbutz) to do whatever he could to hurt Jews. Dozens of civilians including women and children came across. People they had employed on the kibbutz, people they’d invited in for coffee when they were working on the the kibbutz.

    There’s no comparable atrocity committed by NI civilians against anyone on any side. It’s a whole other level of radicalisation.

    But it’s not collective punishment: it’s a war.

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 56,666 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    https://www.facebook.com/YeniSafakEnglish/posts/here-are-some-photos-of-rabbi-eli-schlanger-who-was-killed-in-a-recent-shooting-/881983070885181/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 56,666 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    it's a Genocide and has been for two years. The Dublin bombings of 1974 was similar to what's happening in Gaza every day. Very comparable.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,220 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Emily Hand's father should be ashamed of himself.

    He said in the immediate aftermath of the attack on Oct 7th that he would rather Emily die than to be taken prisoner. We then saw hostage after hostage being released by Hamas in good health and with positive things to say about how they had been treated.

    I wonder, when Emily is older, how she will feel having had a father who would rather her dead than acknowledge the potential for humanity existing within Palestinians.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,478 ✭✭✭Miniegg


    Religious extremism is almost always political under the surface.

    The people who carry out the attacks are undoubtedly radicalised to act on the violent parts of their religious teaching. There are violent texts in Islam , and texts of love and peace that strongly contradict these, just like Christianity and Judaism. Extremist interpretations are rejected or ignored by mainstream Muslims, just like mainstream Christians/ Jews.

    Scratch the surface and Islamic terrorism is universally linked to foreign occupation and military intervention, civil war, state collapse, authoritarian rule, state repression, sectarian/ethnic struggles, poor education and no opportunities, which are all far more common in the ME than other political jurisdictions.

    As example, Al-Qaeda formed during the Cold War where foreign troops fought in the Middle East, Taliban after Russian invasion of Afghanistan, Isis from the chaos after the Iraq/Syria wars, Hamas from Israeli occupation and repression, on and on. In each case, political breakdown came first, religious extremist ideology followed afterwards as a tool.

    What is also a fact is the majority of victims of Islamic terrorism are Muslim themselves, which strongly undermines the idea that these movements are about defending Islam.

    The "Terrorism is about Islam" fallacy sticks around, and is so common on boards.ie and in our media, because its simpler than trying to understand geopolitics, and in fairness because the pawns carrying it out think they are doing for religious reasons.

    Countering Islamic terrorism isn't easy, but if it is seen as political rather than "they do it because they are Muslims", it is possible.
    Kicking all Muslims out of Europe is absolutely not the answer.

    Countries around the world need to promote sturdy and stable societies, and strengthen international law to prosecute repression throughout the world, whereas what we see these days is it's undermining / dismantling. Afterall, repression creates grievances that extremists exploit.

    Also, it would be crazy to not acknowledge that western countries fighting exploitative wars in the ME and killing hundreds of thousands of civilians hasn't contributed. Of course there will be extremist pushback to this.

    There also needs to be a political will in these countries to set their grievances aside and focus on building inclusive countries - if Europe could do it after WW2, anyone can.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,023 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    No, hostage after hostage wasnt released in "good health" with and good things to say about their captors. They said what they had to say at hamas gunpoint and then told the truth after. Starvation, sexual assault, beatings and psychological torture were common. Its not that hard to find the accounts



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 56,666 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    It might be harder to decide which account they gave was the truth. Were they tutored before or after ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,337 ✭✭✭Montage of Feck


    Why should he be ashamed, as you referenced

    I'm certain that after witnessing your friends and family being killed and whatnot in a violet attack and daughter abducted you wouldn't be in a positive frame of mind. A bit ridiculous to expect the man to have any expectations of those attackers having good intentions for the welfare of his daughter.

    🙈🙉🙊



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,595 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    I don't recall any other hostage families expressing the same sentiment? He seemed to be the only one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,006 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    But they did treat her very badly, though luckily not nearly as badly as what he was - not unreasonably - terrified of, namely that she would be treated as a sex slave, like the Yazidi girls taken by ISIS or the Christian girls kidnapped by Boko Haram.

    I find it shocking that you don’t understand that a father might well feel that he’d prefer his daughter to have a quick painless death than live like the Yazidi girls did. Rape and beatings. She was 8.

    Not a single Gazan treated a single hostage kindly. In fact many survivors report that Hamas had to prevent them from being lynched by civilians. Hamas was not being humane (you don’t get to take someone hostage and then claim to have been nice to them FFS) - they wanted some of them to live in order to use them as exchange value. Nothing else.

    But the neck of you daring to criticise him. It’s shocking.

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,523 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    I`m not that sure that as you put it the U.S. meddling with the Shah was not the reason for Iran becoming a theocracy. The CIA hand in hand with the Shah`s SAVAK secrets police played a major part in murdering any opposition that was opposed to him leaving a vacuum that the Ayatollahs to move into. I`m not sure either that the same would not have happened if the circumstances were not the same in a European or Western country. When we became an independent state, while technically becoming a democracy in reality we became pretty much a Catholic autocratic state.

    There appears to be people pushing this narrative that Europe and the Western world will wake up some morning and that democracy will be a thing of the past and we will all be governed by Sharia Law. Personally I believe democracy has much more to worry about from the far right who are pushing this anti Muslim narrative to further their own agenda.



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