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The Political and Financial Implications of Achieving Peace with Russia

  • 08-12-2025 06:14PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 114 ✭✭


    This Christmas I am going to try to keep to my own investment advice and not let my fears or desire get the better of me. Here is a rundown of how I see the current Irish and global political situation leading into Christmas. I have been told to avoid writing in a stream of consciousness, so I will try to keep my thoughts on track, to the point, and punchy.

    I haven’t watched the news or read anything to do with the news or war in three to six months. This has greatly enhanced my day‑to‑day well‑being. However, it has also meant denying the reality of the world we live in to some extent. Recently, the echo of war has been growing louder in the background, appearing in passing news in the background, to the point where I believed encouraging people to soften their stances and avoid digging in their heels around here might help.

    To give a full breakdown of my thoughts on the Ukraine war: my calculations six months to a year ago were that Ukraine might have to give up the land Russia currently holds, while gaining security guarantees in the form of joining NATO and the EU. At the same time, NATO could reduce bases and launch facilities in Eastern Europe. In other words, reverse some of its post‑Cold War expansion, maintain the NATO members added under Clinton and Bush, but reverse the expansion of U.S. bases and launch facilities added during that period and since.

    The challenge is that any settlement will involve concessions. People may fear losing pensions, savings, or freedoms in the form of a far left government. I am not willing to give those things up, but some form of compromise may have to be agreed to bring about an end to the war.

    The problem is that if far‑left parties gain power in Ireland after a post-war new global alignment between America and the BRICs, some households with delicate financial arrangements could face higher taxes, debt, foreclosure, homelessness. It is not simply a matter of education or effort. What we risk sacrificing by allowing the far left to get into power, or by allowing far-left drastically restructuring the economy, are life savings, pensions, freedom.

    But what do we mean by freedom? Is it buying a better type of spinach in the grocery market, affording heating and internet in retirement, choosing which college your children attend, or defending against foreign invaders and winning wars? It is all of those things. The challenge is ensuring that concessions do not bankrupt households or undermine pensions by destabilizing the wider system.

    To prevent that, we need strong economic safeguards at home and institutional commitments from the EU abroad. At home, pensions and savings can be protected by legally protecting pension funds. Government borrowing must be kept down, the housing market must be kept stable, and interest rates should be kept low. At the same time, households can be shielded from foreclosure through stronger mortgage relief mechanisms and debt restructuring programs that activate in times of economic shock.

    Some will criticize my determination of the situation as a choice between bankruptcy versus capitulation to Russia and say it is not that simple — that we can maintain pensions, preserve stability, and still resist wars. But I am not so sure. Without compromise, we risk a wider conflict with the BRICs, which the West will likely lose. The best positioned people to manage this are those in America who were behind negotiations with the Soviet Union in the 1980s.

    It is not simply a case of holding our nerve and maneuvering our way out. Putin and his allies are calling bluffs. France does not have the appetite to defend the former Soviet republics in Europe it will do so if necessary, but it doesn't want to. So compromise may be the only way forward. It is a dangerous game to play, and I want to remind you that this could mean bankruptcy for some households. My family and others I know have lived close to such scenarios for forty years.

    Post edited by Seth Brundle on


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,898 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    russia is an afterthought economically (smaller than Italy), they are only damaging themselves. They were thought to be a force militarily, but that has also been blown apart, China is making hay due to russian stupidity and a stupid patsy US president (Reagan would have killed for this scenario where russia self immolates it's military without US lives on the line and all at a cost of a fraction of the US military budget). Unfortunately MAGA are some of the dumbest and most selfish individuals alive.

    russia seems unlikely to go near NATO, they have ran scared and apologised quickly whenever a missile went off track (which means its cyberattacks, cables and political meddling which they'll engage in, anything with plausible deniability).

    Ireland is a very centrist country with small movements left and right of centre, the largest opposition is a populist party styling itself as the new version of FF with only a single (united Ireland) issue that they stand by with the rest easily swayed.

    Pensions are a ticking time bomb, the retirement age will have to go up as we live longer and private pensions will have to pick up the slack, the retiring boomers are probably getting the most for free of any generation (no wars, expensive houses as assets, generous state pensions with barely any contributions needed, free good healthcare), sure they complain (everybody does) but they'll look blessed in hindsight.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,811 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    That opening post is a mess.

    For example, what??

    The challenge is that any settlement will involve concessions. People may fear losing pensions, savings, or freedoms in the form of a far left government. I am not willing to give those things up, but some form of compromise may have to be agreed to bring about an end to the war.

    The best I can interpret your post as saying, is that a compromise settlement between Ukraine and Russia will precipitate an early election and a far-left government in Ireland, which will raid people's pensions???!!!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 114 ✭✭The Venus Project


    I apologise for not being more clear in my explanation. The correlation I was trying to make was that, the left are growing in this country, and their agents in America, who have given their support to Sinn Fein, are needed to end the war with Russia. It won't trigger an early election but it may enable them to gain power. This will affect the economy. I hope this clarifies my opening post.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,811 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    No they bloody well aren't.

    SF have peaked and are on a downward trajectory. They are hopelessly compromised and none of the other leftist parties on the opposition benches are serious people. They do not have the fibre to bring forward serious and viable alternative policies.

    Ireland is a centrist country, and thanks to PRSTV is likely to remain so for the foreseeable future.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 114 ✭✭The Venus Project


    Do you see the war ending soon - and if so how?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,898 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    It's in putin's interest to run it into the ground as it keeps domestic issues in check (until they spectacularly aren't usually and swan lake is on the TV). It's effectively a stalemate right now, Ukraine need to outlast trump, putin needs to cling onto power till death and hope the country collapses after that.

    It's not the left in the US providing support, it's united Ireland groups.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,826 ✭✭✭Ozymandius2011


    I think the economic damage that would be caused if these kind of invasions become the norm in Europe outweigh the cost of aid to Ukraine and of sanctions.

    I dont agree with forcing Ukraine to cede territory. Poland and the Baltic states, Moldova know perfectly well that tomorrow it may be them.

    Also I think the moral outcome should not be juxtaposed with foreign policy too much. I think the people of Eastern Europe have earned their freedom from the Russian yoke just like the Irish did from the British Empire. Globalisation has increasingly led to western governments neglecting human rights in foreign policy, and surrendering leverage over autocrats in return for economic ties. In 1997 China was 4% of world GDP, compared to 21% now. The West played an important in this because of the trade deals Clinton, Blair and Schroder agreed with them, continued by later Left and Right governments.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,613 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    Only way the war ends soon is if Putin stumbles through a Russian window and the oligarks get someone in power to save their money (could end up with a fanatic as well depending on the faction). If not I'd put it towards end of 2027 ending in a ceasefire in some form (official or unofficial) caused by lack of soldiers (already a huge problem in Russia) combined with an economy that's melted down completely (this winter will be rough, next winter will be Russian bad…). We simply need to look at Nazi Germany's last year to see there's still some runway left for Putin (i.e. sending in the reservists to "defend" in Ukraine and then sending in conscripts in a final push before a deal etc.). Putin's problem will be that no matter who replaces Trump (either party) they will not be as fawning and malleable to Putin which means the writing is on the wall by end of 2027 and he'll need something completed with Trump around to push Ukraine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 114 ✭✭The Venus Project


    There are people who negotiated with the Soviet Union in the 80’s who have established relationships with them and kept those relationships since, to bring about its collapse and peace and they most certainly are on the left the SWP. 

    Yes there was others but I don’t put much faith or hope in the republicans having had too much influence on the outcome of those talks. 

    The question is, are the Americans who are professionals at changing perception, being forthright about their intentions? Or are we we being manipulated. I believe what I see and think these people are the way out towards peace.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,898 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    I'm not sure what the first 2 paragraphs means (SWP = socialist workers party?) So I'd provide more detail and examples on any claims there.

    The current US administration is not subtle, any reasonably intelligent person can see what they are doing, I wouldn't really call it manipulation because of that. But they are a far right issue rather than anything leftist.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 114 ✭✭The Venus Project


    Yes, the SWP refers to the Socialist Workers Party. They weren’t just a fringe voice, they had extensive relationships with figures who were directly involved in dialogue with the Soviet Union in the 1980s via Trade Unions, conferences, events and diplomats and the movement globally which had insight and relationships with global leftist leaders like Catro. Those ties didn’t vanish with the collapse of the USSR; they’ve been maintained in different forms since, precisely because they were part of the machinery that helped bring about a peaceful resolution.

    It’s also worth remembering that American intelligence has always been adept at disguising who is really at the table. Sometimes the official negotiators are only part of the picture, while other actors, often on the left, are shaping perception and outcomes behind the scenes. That’s why I question whether today’s professionals are being forthright about their intentions, or whether we’re once again being managed into a particular narrative.

    You say the current administration is far‑right and unsubtle, and I don’t disagree with that description. But the point I’m making is that the left has historically had channels of influence that don’t show up in the headlines, and those channels matter when it comes to peace.

    I'm not a historian so I don't have in depth details, and please don't attack the depth of my knowledge on the matter but please accept the tone of the post and the intention behind it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,843 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    The most likely outcome of this war is the breaking apart of the Russian Federation and an economic and social meltdown akin to what was seen in the early 90's when the USSR collapsed. This meltdown should enable Ukraine to liberate the occupied parts of their land as Russian soldiers stop being paid and either go AWOL at a mass scale or are recalled by the various warlords we can expect to take control of the various republics and oblasts to take part in a possible civil war (or simply to establish control of each warlord's control of the territory they've seized).

    The financial implications of this will be manyfold: Ukraine will need financial assistance for it's rebuilding efforts, Russia will likely require humanitarian assistance (though whether this will be forthcoming from anyone other than China is another question), the European and South Korean arms industries will explode as trust in America and Russia as providers evaporates.

    Politically, China will be strengthened as much of the former Russian Federation comes under their direct or indirect control. America's soft power will take decades to recover thanks to Trump. The EU (along with the UK and other European nations?) having increased it's military spending dramatically will become not only an economic powerhouse but also a military one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,898 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    The far left are oddballs who have never really come close to power bar a few oddball states.

    I think it would help if you put names on some of those you are accusing, do you mean the centre right DNC, Bernie Sanders or something else? This seems like a weird deflection away from the abject failures of the far right and their fealty to a conman in trump. There are a few non-entities internationally like SF who maintain or maintained ties to russia (due to its socialist past) or Cuba and various South American countries, but their influence is tiny.

    It's highly likely that russia would have collapsed by now if trump wasn't propping them up and making excuses for them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 114 ✭✭The Venus Project


    I don't have names per se as I'm not a historian. However, their movements while small are taking the correct approach rather than economic warfare and attempting to collapse Russia's economy.

    It may still work, and it may have worked before now, if Trump wasn't propping Russia up. But what are the outcomes of such actions over extended periods? Continual economic collapse of Russia generation after generation?

    They will eventually step up and nuke someone. Negotiation is the only way out - not force.

    Anyway, I'm here to discuss the financial implications of the war continuing and the war ending.

    If anyone has any recommendations or views on how to fix that I welcome them here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 114 ✭✭The Venus Project


    I'm going to sign off on this final note, as I wish to disconnect from war, but thought it would be beneficial to someone to put my thoughts out there.

    Most of our savings and pensions sit in ethical stocks in global markets with Irish stocks, with a few foreign ones. The question is: when do you know if the money you’ve put in the system is doing harm?

    That’s the system we’re in, capitalism, where private money can cause unethical conduct, it’s always feeding something you can’t control, greed causes systemic harm. Public money while idealistic, prevents self reliance, independence, diversity and results in monolithic slavery. However, this may be ending soon enough with the birth of AI and robotics.

    The point is simple, we're not a threat to anyone. We don’t want conflict with people in Dublin or anywhere else - left or right. But that’s democracy, isn’t it, messy, contradictory and full of conflict. So I think the best thing to do is, to not collapse our position, but to keep the middle class safety net of having a private pension, and start again. The question is can the left solve this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,843 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    We don’t want conflict with people in Dublin or anywhere else - left or right. 

    Bullshit, the Russian Federation has been involved in 14 conflicts since it's foundation: your lot love conflict.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Russia#Russian_Federation_(1991%E2%80%93present)

    Putin cannot be negotiated with. He's broken every peace treaty he's signed. The only answer to Russian imperialism is force. It's the exact same as the schoolyard, the best response to a bully is a punch in the nose. The nuclear threat is just that: a threat. And as anything other than a deterrant to a pre-emtive nuclear strike on Moscow or St. Petersburg, it's an empty one.

    The Russian population may be entirely made up of criminals, cowards and compliant serfs but no doubt they love their children too and are fully aware that launching a nuclear attack will result in their own nuclear annihalation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,944 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Spoken like a loyal FFG servant

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth house?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,214 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    image.png

    Welcome



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 45,374 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Mod: Right, I'll was going to give you the benefit of the doubt but I'm ending this nonsense now.

    If you wish post in Politics again @The Venus Project then PM me first.

    Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/ .



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