Israel/Palestine Thread

Whereas we have verifiable evidence of the IDF getting a way with murder and state terrorism( the dahiya doctrine) over the years. It seems at odds with the claim that Israel is a democracy with western values when such an environment of imputiny exists for its armed forces .

Collateral damage it's called collateral because it's collateral. It's usually unavoidable and in this particular case it's the owner/user of the pager who, by being engaged in terrorism, put innocents around him at risk.

Whatever. Call it murder from the safety and comfort of your western room but know this: a lot of collateral damage paid for that safety and comfort.

That's what too much safety does, it distorts your world view and make claims like "Israel are the terrorists". None of the terrorist attacks in Europe were done by Israel. But many were done by the other side.

What about terrorist attacks they’ve carried out against non-Europeans? Like the 15 medics they lied about murdering?? Or the children they blew up while they were playing football on a beach? Or the building they blew up in Qatar, who they and the yanks had asked to mediate talks??

Hold on a second @Cordell,

Almost all of the people on this thread have absolutely no issues whatsoever acknowledging and castigating Hamas atrocities against civilians, and have done so many times.

No explaining them away. No "they are all collateral damage" claims. No "this is justified because enemies need to be destroyed", or "there is no other way to do it". No denying the warcrimes they commited, and no hesitation in saying as wishing they need to face the harshest justice for their crimes.

Yet, all of us have been subject to "Hamas supporter" and terror supporter jibes incessantly on this thread, and worse. You've done it yourself countless times, nearly copped a ban for it the other day.

Now, using your own logic, look at what you have failed to condemn, and maybe ask yourself what else are we supposed to think?

Cannot admit Israeli warcrimes.

Bombing hospitals, blowing up schools full of kids, Dropping bunker buster bombs on civilian buildings, on refugee villages (that they forced people to go to). Starving 2 million people. Blockading power, aid, medicine, baby formula and clean water. As was said on another thread, babies are being born in tents into enormous infant mortality. Miscarriages up 300%, all because the medical system has been destroyed for civilian use. Sniping children queuing for food. On and on and on.

You cannot and will not condemn any of these brutal acts and policies. Why?

At what point does the civilian cost of "destroying Hamas" become two much for you to support? 100k? 500k? All of them?

The experts are telling us that Israel are engaging in the most heinous acts it is possible for man to commit against his fellow man (i.e. a genocide).

They are not, as you claim, all antisemetic. You have found not one ounce of proof for this, so what you said is a baseless slander. You have never retracted.

Their investigators who have sifted through copious evidence, have looked through hundreds of publicly available quotes from people in power in Israel, and independently from one another come to these conclusions, often at enormous cost to themselves (US sanctions etc). They have no reason to do it, lest it be true. This is NOT an anti terror operation.

If you cannot criticize atrocities, if you cannot recognize the opinions of experts, and you instead lie, slander, and shill for the regime doing it, what else is this if not full support?

Perhaps knowing that it wasn't IDF who killed one of them, maybe not. Maybe they want Israel to kill all terrorists in the region, so that they don't need to go there anymore.

The pager attacks were 100% a terrorist incident. The IDF / Mossad terrorists who detonated them had absolutely no way of knowing if there would be family, friends, neighbours or innocent bystanders beside the individual when the device exploded.

Even killing the suspect in such a fashion would be totally illegal under international law. What law allows a country to kill suspects without a trial or even any certainty that the person they are targeting has done anything illegal?

There are few people who are going to be influenced by extremist right wing nutcases like that who weren't already leaning into the same disturbing world view. People like that are unreachable because they are incapable of any kind of reflection. They don't do nuance and are happy to die on the most ridiculous of argumentative hills because they've set up an enemy in their heads.

It is simply a waste of time trying to engage with people like that. It's completely fruitless on any level.

The peacekeepers who were fired upon last week by the lovely "freedom fighters" of hezbollah and not a peep on here about it?

You and your pal are calling me extremist headbanger, right wing nutcase and whatever else, and you wonder why I don't engage? That's why, you are not here for a conversation, you're here to spill your vile bile.