Manchester United Thread 25/26 - Teamtalk/Transfers/Gossip Mod Note in OP 26.09.24

I'd have to respond to:

"If you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem"

What has Amorim brought to show he's even the solution?

Over a year in the job, and we're nothing more than a mid-table team. In a season where we have no distractions outside of PL Games.

No European games. No Carabao cup since August. That should have been a huge advantage to us.

The minor improvements we've seen have come from the signing of Mbeumo (who has been largely very good) and from having a fairly competent keeper at last. That's it.

Otherwise, it's the same story.

The two man CM remains a huge problem, forcing a square peg into a round hole, like Bruno, will never work. And that's on the Coach.

Defensively we are fragile, we continue to leak very soft goals.

The Coach has a frightening reluctance to adapt or improve things with his in-game management.

And the end product from the WBs continues to be really poor.

We don't have the wing backs for it, imo, and inconsistent at CB for it. I think that is part of the issue. We are still relying on Bruno for creativity and progression, because Dorgu and Dalot aren't doing it at LWB. and I think we need Shaw to be more aggresive in joining and starting attacks - Martinez was starting to do that before injury, but I fear the impact that will have had on him now.

IMO the central midfield is partly a response to the inability of the wide CBs and WBs (anyone not named Amad) to be the primary point of progession.

If you put Case and Gomes in CM, with Dorgu LWB? Its going to be defensively better but horrendous going forward.

I was thinking about his post match quote - about its his fault, cause he needs to tell the players how to play in every situation.

that… can't be true. Players have to have agency and initiative. Within a general structure and game plan, where coached patterns etc are important… but something struck me odd about him saying that.

What I would love to know is what he was saying to the players during the game.

IMO there is a logical explanation for the players on the pitch being in those positions, but how they were playing in them is where i have the issue. I know people have just screamed '3atb vs 10 men!' but IMO that is not really the issue. The issue is how deep the defenderds sat, for much of the match. How conservative Yoro was on the ball, where Shaw pushed to (and how slowly) in attacks etc.

i KNOW i have seen him scream at Dalot for 90 minutes cause he's been in the wrong place most of the time, so I don't immediately think what the players are doing is what they are being told to do.

So I'd love to know if he was telling Yoro to be braver (he's commented on De Ligt still being too safe with his passing), was he telling Shaw to push higher and wider?

Maybe he wasn't, and they were pretty much where he wanted them. But then even if he was asking for more, not subbing the players who simply aren't doing it would be an issue as well.

He was definitely told to play the Casemiro role in the second half of the Everton match with Mainoo licence to go forward.

But it should have been two wing backs acting as wingers, so not defenders. And then you have 2cbs and Shaw. If Shaw pushes up more aggressively then it is 2cbs?

This is what I am getting at - its the actual position and aggression, not the named role imo.

and I'm not actually defending Amorim - i just think the debate should be on something else - the general atttitude of the team and not whether Yoro was subbed off or not. Also, the fact Lacey was the only offensive sub we didn't use (we only had 3…) would point to why Yoro wasn't taken off imo. Maybe Heaven would have been braver than Shaw, but thats about it. I know we aren't asking for Ugarte to have been brought on!

The only player he could have brought on to do what you are asking them to do… is Lacey. for his debut. And yeah, if you've put him on the bench there is no excuse to not use him. He's either ready to play, or it was performative nonsense, arguably.

I think the team, regularly, puts in these limp performances.

I don't think Amorim is planning on them being second to every ball and two yards off every tackle. I don't think Amorim asked Bruno and Casemiro to not complete a single tackle in the first half. I don't think he was asking the players to make dumb fouls all second half.

So, imo, there is something other than the tactical set up that is an issue - but then it is still on Amorim to correct that - even if it makes taking Bruno off for Ugarte, or Shaw for Heaven or Dalot for Lacey. The lack of agression isn't a tactical set up, the lack of tempo isn't a tactical set up, imo. But his failure in 12 months to address those consistent issues is an issue that should be questioned and criticised.

If the wing backs are meant to be wingers providing width in this particular scenario or in any scenario where you play two number 10s, what is the logic behind using wrong footed wing/backs? If the tactic was to get crosses in to the box as it became on Monday night surely you want the lads crossing it on their correct foot.

Who would you have brought on for Dorgu? Lacey is the only option right? Maybe that is the sub that should have been made, but I don't think Dalot instead of him is insane.

At 60 min when he made the Dorgu to Dalot sub I would have instead made the sub Dorgu to Mainoo and lined up as follows

Everton at that stage were bedded in around their own box in a 441 shape. Two banks of 4 and a single striker as an outlet up the pitch

———————Lemannes——————-

————Yoro——————-DeLigt———

Amad——-Case———Mainoo———-Shaw

————————Bruno————————

Mbeumo——-—-Zirkzee————Mount

- Get Amad and Mbeumo out on that right side running at their defence.
- Get Shaw overlapping Mount on the left.
- Tell Bruno he is free to roam and pick up space. A nightmare when Everton are trying to keep 2 flat lines of 4.
- Casemiro and Mainoo in midfield with 2 CBs still behind them, one supports attacks from deeper the other supports the CBs - switch around to pull Everton out of shape.
- I know Urgate is shite but if Casemiro is dead on his feet then sub him in for Case, make Mainoo the permanent player to support attack from the middle then. Keep Urgate doing the simple job, win it and off load it to a better player (all you can do with him).
- Get Lacey on for the last 10 min if still needing a goal - often teams have't prepeared for the likes of Lacey coming from the youth team so Everton defenders will be less likely to know his strengths / weakness. Sometimes the innocence of youth can spark something - less fear etc..

1-0 with 30 to play at home. Create some chances, get the crowd on their feet.
Increase the atmosphere in the stadium and pressure on Everton.

Ya know, play like you are Man Utd

I do think Cunha being out was so damaging - cause we are crap. We had not threat on the left without him, so Everton could overload and shut down the right.

It was a hard watch Monday from inside the stadium and it was very little to do with a system. The lack of urgency and intensity is beyond woeful, it was an appalling performance and result. The manager takes flack because he didn't effect change from the sidelines but can we please elevate the conversation away from 3 at the back? Or 5 as some like to claim. This isn't the issue. It's lazy analysis and the greatest **** stain sky sports has ever given us.

Actually, on systems I think I'd have probably switched it to more of a traditional 352 as Zirkzee offers absolutely nothing as a lone striker, maybe if we had Mbuemo close to.him and running off him if we ever played a quick ball before Everton were set. All 3 of them wanting to come to feet drove me mad. Ambling up the field letting Everton get set before trying the same attacking patterns that failed 24 times in a row was soul destroying. Shaw was so cowardly in his passing, so many times in both halves he had the quick switch option but choose to just jog up the pitch and wait till Everton dropped back and got ready. Zirkzee and movement are total strangers to each other, no double movements from a y of them, no threatening runs in behind to stretch the defence.

------Yoro---—--De Ligt--------Shaw

Amad----Cas----Mount----Bruno---Dalot

--------------Mbuemo------Zirkzee-----

Missing Cunha was a nightmare, be Ruben has got to find a way of getting a win against 10 man Everton at home, it's not good enough from the managers and it's not good enough from the players.

Would be nice if we didn't feed into this emotional rollercoaster either, it cannot swing from everything is awesome to everything is **** every two weeks. Mentally exhausting. More dropped points ahead of afcon isn't good so we need to make up for it again, 2 steps forward 1 step back, we are a middling premier league team right now and there will be more days like that ahead before we get clear of this ****.

I see we've thrown our support behind Old Trafford’s bid to host matches at the 2035 FIFA Women’s World Cup with the new 100k seat stadium. Nothing concrete yet, but a positive sign.

Sesko to be out for slightly longer than expected. Cunha & Maguire still out this weekend. Cunha back for West Ham next weekend.