Russia-Ukraine War (continuing)

So just because there is corruption in Russia it's OK for Ukraine's ruling class to be corrupt and line their own pockets and ensure that they have an exit strategy and set up for life if all goes tits up ??

Remember that the money being siphoned off is not Ukrainian taxes but donations for the war effort from EU, USA etc. Long before the Russian invasion Ukraine was listed as one of the most corrupt country in the western world…..a leopard can't change it's spots overnight !…………and they are being pushed to the top of the queue by NATO and others to ensure swift full membership of the EU

Zelenskyy was a two bit comedian, made a name for himself mocking politicians and certain powerful vested interests convinced him to run for president himself which he agreed to do just for a laugh. To his surprise he became president and it seems those who ensured that their puppet got elected are pulling the strings now and as the billons of euro 'war aid' is rolling in they (and perhaps their puppet) are ensuring that they get their cut. Needless to say as in all such cases this is the tip of the iceberg, the whole truth will never be made public knowledge. It's no coincidence that Zelenskyy happens to be a jew………..that says it all really!

Mod - warned for breach of forum charter

Wtf is with that last sentence. The mask really does come off sooner or later.

UK, France, Germany and the US are supporting Russia now ? Because that's the side carrying out pretty much everything you've mentioned there.

There is no mask……….just shining a light into dark corners that certain folk would rather I did not. There is such thing as the inconvenient truth. In the real world there is not such thing as good and squeaky clean on one side and bad, bad, evil on the other, we are fed different versions of the ''truth'' depending on where on the planet we happen to be. It's all about control and power and greed is the drug that drives it.

What is shiþ is that this was so predictable and that even if it is walked back to any extent it seems inevitable it will resurface in another month or so.

Has this episode put an end to the supposed talk of harsher sanctions on Russia?

Were they due to come into effect around now? (conveniently)

I like the way Ukraine is required by the Trump (Putin) plan to have an election within 100 days whereas Russia hasn’t had a proper one of those in Lord knows how many years.

After 1990, Russia could have prepared itself for reconciliation with Europe, maybe even EU membership, like a normal country. Instead it chose the path of a 19th century empire, attacking and terrifying its neighbours. Let’s hope a day of reckoning is not too far off for the tsars’ wretched successor.

So it's gone from a deal on the table that Ukraine has to accept by a Thanksgiving deadline (no mention of Russia accepting, then again it's their proposal) to just a framework…. Is it normal for people to sign a deal and then that deal turns into a framework? I always assumed they sign a framework and then work towards a deal?

It gets worse, the entire US administration is ran by complete morons.

https://www.mediaite.com/politics/russian-wish-list-lawmakers-say-marco-rubio-told-them-leaked-28-point-peace-plan-for-ukraine-is-not-trumps-deal/

The problem is the baseline for negotiations is tantamount to what Germany faced in 1918 and 1945 when they were either facing inevtiable total impending collapse (1918) or an actual collapsed nation (1945).

Ukraine holds a lot of the territory Russia wants, territory Russia has very little chance of seizing by force at the current rate. It has strong, fortified positions, and an intact military that is inflicting horrific casulties on Russia.

A baseline of "give us everything we want, strip your military, forego NATO and forget about the horrific warcrimes we comitted while reintegrating our barbaric nation back into the global economy penalty free" is no baseline at all.

It's just not realistic even as a starting point.

Trump is about as reliable as a paper condom. His opinion changes with the wind, whatever his personal motive. Just a few weeks ago he was waxing about how Ukraine might win back all its territory, now he's pushing a deal that goes Mach 3 in the opposite direction.

It's a Russian-made list of demands, this is starting to be confirmed now by US senators.

https://x.com/nickschifrin/status/1992359070435582150

Seems to be some division in the Trump administration over the plan or else they are starting to distance themselves from it. Senator Mike Rounds says he spoke to Rubio who said it was not a US proposal but one that was received.

As Michael Weiss posts on X about this:“So either King, Rounds and everyone else up here are lying about what Rubio told them (which is what the State spox just tweeted out) or there is some late attempt to disown this thing. How can Ukraine, Europe go to Geneva when U.S. Senators are saying they're meant to negotiate a "Russian wish list" put in front of them by American officials?”

State Department spokesman effectively saying that what Republican Senator Mike Rounds said Rubio told Senators is "blatently false".

I believe Rounds. King also says it. This was written by Russia. It even has Russianisms in the text.