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Russia-Ukraine War (continuing)

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,070 ✭✭✭Ozymandius2011


    Ireland’s failure to properly monitor a Russian ship in the Irish Sea is ‘embarrassing’, a defence expert has warned.

    Senator Tom Clonan, a retired Irish Army captain, told Extra.ie on Thursday that the Russian vessel Yantar is seeking to provoke a reaction from the West – and the incident highlights that Ireland is vulnerable to hybrid attacks.

    The ship is believed to be off the west coast of Scotland near the Isle of Man and has been pointing lasers at the RAF planes sent to monitor it, the UK government said.

    ‘We are responsible for critical infrastructure between America, Europe and the UK and there’s a huge amount of data that passes through those cables,’ Senator Clonan said.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,496 ✭✭✭✭Jelle1880


    He's only speaking the truth, if Russia is allowed to continue.

    Also, is this one of your 'neutral' sources ? The account is a complete crackpot.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,852 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    And in all cases these were not considered an act of war. Are you hoping that some European countries shoot down Russian jets in Russian airspace and say it's ok cause Russia breached Estonian air space?

    I mean you have to be realistic ffs, European jets shooting down Russian jets over Russia and attacking ground targets in Russia is slightly **** different than breaching Estonian airspace. One is a provocation, one is an act of war. You seem to be confusing them.

    I'm all for European countries to step up their support, short of declaring war on Russia. Like giving Ukraine the export version (longer range) of scalp and stormshadow. Long range meteor AA and long range missiles for the IRIS system so they can hit targets deeper in Russia.

    I'm also in favor of those European jets that patrol the Polish border during mass drone attacks on Ukraine to engage targets inside western Ukraine. Far short of Russian long range AA systems and within relative safety.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭brickster69


    The old world is dying, and the new world struggles to be born: now is the time of monsters. — Antonio Gramsci



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,898 ✭✭✭Apiarist


    It is difficult, I agree. It must be a collective response, not each country sending this and that. There is the "Coalition of the Willing", this could be the structure that coordinates the action.

    What kind of action I would like to see? Closing of the sky over Ukraine, with the European air defense and planes shooting down drones/rockets and Russian planes if they stray into Ukrainian airspace.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,070 ✭✭✭Ozymandius2011


    Are there any circumstances, such as a Russian invasion of an EU state, where you would accept declaring war on Russia, or that other EU states should?

    Even Putin hasnt declared war. He declared a "Special Military Operation". Declarations of war are becoming a thing of the past.

    We would not have managed to get an Irish Republic if people had listened to the "peace at any price" people. 25% voted for the Home Rulers in 1918 and many of them were the more comfortable big farmers or middle class professionals who benefitted from British rule to some extent and were more risk averse about changing a system they benefitted from. But if people didnt take those risks we wouldnt have had the Republic we now have/

    And few gave the Irish any chance of success in that war but here we are.

    Those who are not prepared to fight for anything will in the end lose everything to the first aggressor.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,496 ✭✭✭✭Jelle1880


    Continue with their hybrid warfare on European infrastructure like ammo plants, railways, underwater cables, shopping centers (they burned a few of those in Poland), jamming of GPS signals in the Baltic states,…

    There's actually quite a large list of attacks I can provide if you're really interested. I'll try to make sure they're 'neutral sources' :)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,669 ✭✭✭Patrick2010


    Reading the plan it’s clear Trump has done a deal with Putin to split up Ukraine between Russia and America making both countries money from Ukraines natural materials and nuclear production. Ukraine has no option but fight on or they’ll be impoverished and ruled by Russia. Europe need to make a stand here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭satguy


    Russia saw a USA lead NATO eyeing missile sites along the Ukraine boarder with Russia.

    They had to act, just as the USA acted when Russia was eyeing missile sites in Cuba. It's not our fight and EU states should stay well clear, and not get involved.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,036 ✭✭✭rogber


    It's a really good speech and strikes a defiant note. It's also a clear appeal to Europe to step up its support. Let's see how it evolves



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,852 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    A direct attack on an European country or said countries direct interests would be a justification for a declaration of war. Countries waging illegal wars tend not to declare war, case in point Russia.

    It's all a moot point when you think shooting down Russian planes and Russian SAM sites within Russia is equal footing to Russian planes violating Estonian airspace.

    It's very easy to call for a no fly zone without even considering the implications. This has been dismissed by European countries time and again yet people still bring it up. It results in a direct confrontation with Russia.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,070 ✭✭✭Ozymandius2011


    What about shooting down the Russian surveillance drones flying over sensitive sites in Germany and Denmark?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭brickster69


    You are in big trouble saying stuff like that :)

    The old world is dying, and the new world struggles to be born: now is the time of monsters. — Antonio Gramsci



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,221 ✭✭✭vixdname


    Its genuinely hard to know where this is going.

    The actual fact this so called peace deal was being glued together "IN SECRET" behind Ukraines and the EUs back speaks volumes.

    The fact that the orange buffoon is now telling Zelensky to accept the unacceptable sounds like he wants Zelensky to reject it so he can have an excuse to walk away from it all and allow his buddy in the Kremlin try and get what he wants.

    I can see Tramp, I mean Trump, cutting off intel if Ukraine reject this ludicrous proposal.

    If intel is cut, how badly will it affect Ukraine, can it still carry on fighting but with more casualties…can the EU fill that gap ?

    They also say the US may cut off weapons supplies….would the orange buffoon sacrifice the billion of dollars hes currently getting from the EU for US weapons ? Is he really that compromised ?

    If Ukraine chooses to fight on with the EU backing, how will this play out ? Will there be a more aggressive stance from the EU now that they dont have to keep kissing donnies ass to try keep him onside, hes shown his true colours and where his allegiances lie - cut the US off …would this work ?

    If Ukraine continue to fight, can they fight long enough to destroy russias economy and force it to stop fighting due to economic reasons ?

    Should Ukraine continue fighting in the hope that a more "Normal" and not so "intellectually disabled" president wins the next US election and see if they can cut away the festering boil that is russia once and for all times ?

    Im sure we'll see the last gasps of EU \ UK - US diplomacy and ass kissing playout over the next week or 2, in the hope TACO strikes again, but , and I so hope Im wrong, I think this is the culmination of what has been planned by Donnie and his buddy in the Kremlin from day one - I think Donnie is hammering his colours to the mast and the EU \ world needs to take heed.

    I think its time for the EU to say once and for all, we have to go this alone, and I hope they do their utmost to make the US pay in one way or another for the shameful, lying and wholesale disgusting entity it has become.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,254 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    I think the best response from European allies if Trump pulls remaining support is to announce an additional major military aid package and leave it at that. I can't see Trump preventing sales though and profiting off this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,611 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Ukraine should simply remain non-committal about this silly proposal until Trump has forgotten about it and has been distracted by something else.

    Someone else posted that there's still 3 more years of Trump to go. But that doesn't actually sound so bad compared to a year ago. 12 months time are the mid terms where Trump's grip on the US executive may be weakened. Immediately after that the next US presidential electoral cycle will begin which Trump can't be involved in. With less power and no longer being the centre of attention Donnie will spend the rest of his term cheating at golf in Florida.

    Russia can see that their window of opportunity with Trump is closing. They have very little time left.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,898 ✭✭✭Apiarist


    Another possibility is Trump fading into the irrelevance. He lost big time with his handling of Epstein files and his base may decide that he is a lame duck president and that his successor needs to be taking a larger role sidelining Trump.

    In that case, all bets are off. Ukraine may get more support, or less support, or maybe the USA stops engaging completely.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,177 ✭✭✭Glenomra


    HHow Can the EU continue to support Ukraine in the defence of their country, when Hungary can veto any decision they make and also the EU have no military structure.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,917 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    This is a plan of Dmitriev and Witkoff. Doubt if many in the Kremlin want to see it actually succeed. Two guys with no diplomatic experience flying a wunder plan.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,852 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    I think you're getting way off track. How does a European fighter jet flying around Ukraine defend itself from Russian missiles launched from within Russia? Are they expected to not defend themselves?

    A no fly zone needs air supremacy, you can't very well have that when Russian fighters are launching missiles from within Russia.

    Maybe the European fighter jets would have their transponders turned on so the Russians won't target them? Or maybe the European fighters don't engage targets until fired upon? That could work, you'd loose a fighter jet but the pilot should be safe.

    It's very easy calling for a no fly zone but most experts say it's unachievable without a direct attack on Russia or your fighters be just sitting ducks.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,669 ✭✭✭Patrick2010




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,669 ✭✭✭Patrick2010


    It’s up to NATO now, they need to protect Europe from Russia. It’s not just Russia sending armies, they’ve attacked a nato railway line in Poland as well as cyber attacks. They have been in our waters looking at the underwater cables as well as planes overflying Eastern Europe.

    Putin only respects strong responses, Europe needs to make a strong action in favour of Ukraine and see how Putin replies. Wouldn’t worry too much about losing US intel as the likes of Tulsi Gabarrd is completely a Russia asset



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,095 ✭✭✭Avatar in the Post


    Zelensky’s speech is very much a rallying cry to Europe to help Ukraine help Europe.

    This plan will drift from the news and has zero chance of actual implementation. It also screams of amateurs playing grown up diplomats. The wording is school boy level. But what do you expect from a document to enrich the US. Scarlet for them, so I am! 👺



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,889 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Zelenskyy is here in Ireland next week.

    Starmer, Macron, Merz, Tusk and Meloni should all be invited here for an impromptu summit, not only to back Ukraine, but to demonstrate it to the world.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,496 ✭✭✭✭Jelle1880


    Because it's complete lies and Russian propaganda.

    And as with everything Russia says it's just another fabrication to justify the bombings of hospitals and schools.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,587 ✭✭✭Marty Bird


    NATO went into Yugoslavia on humanitarian grounds do the same now.

    🌞6.02kWp⚡️3.01kWp South/East⚡️3.01kWp West



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,496 ✭✭✭✭Jelle1880


    I just had a read of that proposal and to call it disgraceful is an understatement.

    It for example says that all Russia needs to allow a new invasion is the claim that Ukraine has fired something at Moscow. It doesn't even have to hit, if Russia would just claim that they show down a drone heading to Moscow that's sufficient. Given their history of false flags it's almost a certainty they would do so.

    Let's hope Ukraine ignores it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,485 ✭✭✭z80CPU
    Darth 8-bit


    In the unlikely event any of them come along, they'd better learn up on the stifling woke protocol our own government practice.

    I won't hold my breath.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,036 ✭✭✭rogber


    Putin has just come out and given his support so you're wrong. Only one man's opinion matters in Russia, he and Trump have clearly come up with this together and it's tailored completely to Putin's wishes



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,639 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    I can't imagine any circumstance under which Zelensky signs it. Ukraine had absolutely zero involvement in its drawing up, not a single word.



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