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Cities around the world that are reducing car access

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Comments

  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,112 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    I wouldn't go around looking to East German folk as a shining example of anything, if the government really start pushing pro-car policies, then they'll be against that too soon enough.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,844 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    Weird that the article doesn't really discuss the proposed referendum and new phase (17?) of the A100, I would have thought those would be major topics of discussion. Both would sort of argue against the broad topic of the article though, but it's odd that they were just left out.

    FWIW, I don't really think there's much pushback in Berlin, not really. Most people there don't drive. I'd be of the opinion that there seems to be more pushback against reduced car access in London (LTN's etc) than there is in Berlin.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 31,612 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Yes, old people being cranks is both telling and predictable.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,918 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    Can we ignore the obvious trolling? Just hit the report button and move on.

    Kermit can start their own thread if they want to chat about that topic.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,844 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    I dunno, Kermit does provoke a bit of conversation at least, and it's nice to have a counterpoint to our more "consensus" points of view.

    So even if Kermit is trolling (I won't speculate!) their posts are usually not just repeats of right-wing "culture wars" phrases. It's usually closer to "I have the horn for cars and big roads infrastructure, so look at this". Like a car version of a rail enthusiast, maybe. Definitely seems like one of us infrastructure nerds!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    The constant complaints about cancelled services and ghost buses affecting the BusConnects roll out are not convincing people to use public transport either.

    Younger commuters especially are saving to buy a car so that they can get to work and avoid public transport in Dublin.

    Traffic on the M50 now 11% higher than 2019 levels. That is a huge increase.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,214 ✭✭✭Ben D Bus


    I'm inclined to think of M50 traffic as a function of the housing crisis and people being dispersed across the commuter counties rather than a consequence of BusConnects.

    Is there evidence of increasing car ownership among younger commuters in the city?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    General population increase in the greater dublin area will drive an increase in cars on the road.

    County Dublin has increased in population by around 180k people since 2019.

    Thats equal to the entire populations of Galway and Limerick cities combined.

    The nunber of cars on the road across Ireland has increased 20% from 2016 to 2024.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,298 ✭✭✭✭Thargor


    Im in Limerick and I cycle commute across the city 10km each way every day, I recently started noticing this aswell, the sheer amount of sh1t the council keeps sticking in everywhere, poles, junction boxes, manholes, signs, road markings and clutter everywhere 90% of it car related.

    I was hiking in Switzerland around St Moritz recently and I know that place is Disneyland but the clean streets were so relaxing, saw it in all the other Swiss towns aswell, Ive been feeling stressed out and tense since I came back tbh.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 54,468 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    What about your claim that younger commuters in particular are investing in cars?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,082 ✭✭✭✭John_Rambo


    Who told you the number of cars on the road across Ireland has increased 20% from 2016 to 2024?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    CSO.

    2.6 million in 2016 and 3.1 million in 2024.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,082 ✭✭✭✭John_Rambo


    That's mad, I guess I'm not looking beyond my circle where people are dropping the second car and finding alternatives.

    I can't find that figure anywhere. Can you post a link?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 425 ✭✭Frostybrew


    That's for all vehicles registered. The rate of growth for car ownership is lower. These figures are also for the entire country, so can not be used to show an increase in the specific areas affected by BusConnects; nor can they be used to show an increase in any specific demographic group.

    https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-eii/environmentalindicatorsireland2024/transport/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭SuperBowserWorld


    Can you imagine what the traffic and commute would be like if people were not working from home ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37 jimbob955


    Its getting worse. More and more people I know are back in the office Full time or 3/4 days a week. I've gone to 4 days a week myself. Sometimes I laugh at big multinationals who want to reduce carbon foot print, be seen to be more greener. Honestly the biggest thing they could do is encourage more flexibility and WFH to get more cars off the road.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,082 ✭✭✭✭John_Rambo


    Thanks for the link. @BlueSkyDreams you're right, although less than 15%.

    I'm amazed at that figure and as I said I'm probably just looking at my own immediate surroundings where people are driving less and less.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 503 ✭✭✭PlatformNine


    As someone else said, this is the wrong figure. However it also doesn't even tell the whole picture. The real figrue was already linked, but the the CSO's raw dataset is a bit easier to read and gives more detail: https://data.cso.ie/table/THA10

    The number of private cars on the road has increased by just under 14% from 2016 to 2023 or from 2m to 2.3m. I am not able to find the 2024 data on the CSO website, as all the vehicle population data across many datasets only goes up to 2023.

    However, what you also didn't check was that the kilometres travelled, which in 2023 was 35.1B and still below pre-COVID levels which were 35.5B in 2019, let alone the 36.6B in 2016. It is the lowest annual km travelled since 2015 which saw 35.0B km from private cars. So even if the number of private cars has increased, the average car use has significantly decreased.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 93 ✭✭Compo82


    There is need for huge investment in public transport but that doesn't mean we should stop investment in roads either. If the population is increasing, its simple math's that the number of cars on the roads will increase and not everyone will use public transport or cycle. The outer bypass of the M50 should be really be under consideration again from Drogheda down to Naas /Bray and the completion of the M50 from the docks to the southern section of the M50. A number of junctions should be improved inside the M50 with underpasses or fly overs also like on the Chapelizod bypass etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,918 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    There is nothing realistic you can invest in roads that would help Dublin city centre.



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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 44,418 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Dublin's traffic issues are not as a result of needing new roads. It is simply because people in general are unwilling to get out of their car or to allow the re-prioritisation of road space towards efficient and sustainable options.

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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 54,468 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    notwithstanding that, where would you put an extra motorway to bray? over the mountains?

    and how much traffic flows from naas to drogheda, traffic that would not end up on the M50 at some point anyway?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,717 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I can't see how you can fix the car congestion with more roads or more road capacity. Demand just rises to fill it.

    But we have no rewards for low mileage. Once I've all the sunk costs of car ownership I might as well use it, even where other options exist for that journey.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,430 ✭✭✭riddlinrussell


    M50 needs reverse distance tolling and an orbital bus service that has a priority lane (a-la NIs hard shoulder bus lanes near Belfast) with transfer bus stations on each exit to transfer from orbital to radial, it would be relatively cheap to implement as a stopgap for 'metro west' in whatever form that takes. Same goes for any 'ring road' in Ireland currently doing double duty as a distributor.

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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 54,468 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    I don't know if I like that idea; I'd prefer keep the congestion on the M50 than drive it onto lesser local roads.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,918 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    Isn't there a separate Roads thread about Dublin Outer Orbitals? 😇



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,125 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    It comes up quite a bit but I've never been convinced by the idea of an M50 bus service. None of the destinations people are going to are actually on the M50, so you're looking at at least 3 buses - one to get to the M50 bus, your journey along the M50 and then a bus to Sandyford or wherever.

    Even with a dedicated lane on the motorway (not straightforward at all) the bus would have exit at every junction and get to an interchange point with the radial services, so it would be really slow. I can't see it being a success.

    Metro West (or whatever is the new version) is not planned to go along the M50 and will serve actual destinations and not just motorway junctions.

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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,566 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    If you want to get drivers out of cars in cities, the best way is to make parking difficult in it being expensive, being difficult to find, and being horribly expensive and terribly time wasting if you get clamped.

    I was once clamped in a foreign city, and in Dublin terms it would be liked getting clamped of SSG. I then had to walk to take my parking ticket to Kevin St Gardai station. Join the queue to get the ticked transferred by hand to another ticket. I had then to take it on foot to the GPO to join another queue to pay, and get the ticket stamped with a PAID entry. I then had to return the KS GS to re-join the queue to get my receipt turned into a release docket. Only KS and the GPO dealt with clamps for the whole city. I then had to return to my car to await release which might take an hour or more for when the release happens to pass by. In total a waste of two or three hours. Never again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,717 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    You have to make driving harder and public transport easier. Both for convivence and cost. Same for cycling.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 54,468 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0965856425003684?via%3Dihub

    this paper would tend to agree.

    8. Conclusions

    Broadly speaking, the empirical evidence paints a rather bleak picture regarding the potential to substantially reduce aggregate VKT by improving alternative modes, using planning strategies to affect urban form, or using “soft measures”



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