After the FF Presidential election debacle, how long before Micheal Martin resigns or is pushed?

Because people vote for people that they know or recognise. The addition of photos tot he ballot papers means that people are more likely to recognise celebrity candidates than ordinary political candidates and many people only make up their minds on their voting choice in the last few weeks before an election. Some who may not be political anoraks might even make up their mind in the polling booth. Carberry and Walsh were good FG examples.

If it wasn't for the party being destroyed in the 2011, I don't think would ever have become leader. There were are lot more stronger candidates than him but they decided to bail out after that election. I see him as a bit like Enda Kenny, only became leader by hanging around long enough. He was never that impressive as a Minister, I think he was called the "minister for reports" or something similar.

In fairness Cynthia NíMurchú was more than just a celeb name. Like our new president she had a professional legal career behind her so wasn't steps removed from current affairs.

Most times in life the easiest option will be taken.

MM already knows the score,he won't be let stay on after the handover and there won't be a heave before.

Really is as simple as that.

Apparently the half that did clap are unhappy that someone leaked that half didn't clap.

modern day ff is spineless.oh for the halcyon days of bitching,backstabbing and Gerry Collins going on rte news begging Albert for the sake of the party not to burst it by shafting haughey..

Ff in 2025 stand for nothing.

Why is it taking so long? Is it to give time for Martin, Chambers and O'Brien to get their stories straight or is it just a ploy to put it on the long finger and hope that it is forgotten about and they carry on as normal?

It is a resigning matter but wouldn't it be better to try and use an opportunity to get some changes to party procedure to make it less centralised, in regard to presidential candidate selection at the very least and more binding broad policy Ard Fheis motions.

Can't see him resigning, too many of the front benchers owe him their positions and I'm not sure many of them wouldn't survive a new leader coming in, so they won't turn on him. It would also be madness for the FF party to agree to him staying on till the handover and then stepping away as that makes him a lame duck leader, while anyone with leadership ambitions will be out to undermine their opponents in party.

They'll have to drag him out kicking and screaming. Too many of the frontbench owe their position to him and the centralisation of FF has allowed FFHQ to select candidates. That's the kind of control with which the non-Martin supporters in FF are competing. The thing that may motivate some FFers is the sheer cost of Martin's campaign to get Gavin election. There is the slight possibility that Martin could do the decent thing and resign having accepted full responsibiity for the fiasco.

The thickest neck in Irish politics didn't look his usual self today. There's a softening there, almost an internal resignation to the inevitable. His only choice now being choose his own time to step down, or let the dissent build to a crescendo that could bring the coalition down.

Don't be naive enough to imagine that rising to the top of Irish politics doesn't require a thick neck!

But I thick you're right, the price for this debacle will be having to signal a retirement date.

He may well try and push it out to a firm commitment to step down as leader in December 2027, when the handover to the Fine Gael leader as Taoiseach is scheduled. Whether he gets away with such a move would remain to be seen.