After the FF Presidential election debacle, how long before Micheal Martin resigns or is pushed?

Not soon enough. Speaking of the handover of Taoiseach, who will it be handed over too in FG? Also will we ever get back to the stage where we will not have a rotating Taoiseach or are we stuck with it forever now?

Martin will step down as leader when his term as Taoiseach is over. He will then be in a position to be appointed to the European Presidency when it is Irelands turn. He is a cute Cork Hoor

The Indo has a story on the cost of the Grainne Seoige election parachute. It seems to be upping the heat on Martin.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/failed-grainne-seoige-election-bid-cost-fianna-fail-nearly-double-that-of-her-successful-running-mates-campaign/a1579155257.html

FF doesnt have the same tradition of leadership revolts that FG has, except in the Haughey years.

Recent FF and FG leaders have made sure to fill the Cabinet and Junior Ministries as widely as possible. They will naturally be reluctant.

The revolt against Haughey in 1985 by O'Malley and Mary Harney (later founded the PDs) , and then in 1992 by Cabinet ministers like Albert Reynolds and Padraig Flynn are rare exceptions.

Personally I would prefer O'Callaghan as a successor. But he wisely is not challenging Martin. FF has a strong tradition of loyalty to its leader, and those who challenge openly tend to not be forgiven by the party faithful.

Theres also a tradition of party leaders trying to manage the succession. This failed with Jack Lynch who probably preferred George Colley (moderate on Northern Ireland) over Haughey. However in the case of Lynch's fall, the plotting happened while he was out of the country.

Likewise, Des O'Malley managed the PD succession by endorsing Mary Harney while Pat Cox was out of the country.

Supporting the team even comes before winning elections in FF sometimes, as in 2011 where they kept Brian Cowen as Taoiseach despite the planned leadership change. This has echoes of Biden/Harris in 2024 and I'm not sure if there are examples of it working.

The press speculated that Enda Kenny would have preferred Simon Coveney to succeed him over Leo Varadkar.

FGs country and western wing supported Coveney, while the majority of the parliamentary party supported Varadkar. There might be a similar divide when it eventually comes to a leadership election. Theres also possibility that like Cowen becoming leader, there will be a consensus candidate to avoid a "damaging" contest.

I'm not sure a contest would be more damaging than not having one though. Looking at the FF presidential candidate selection or lack of, the perception of party bosses orchestrating behind the scenes I think hurt Gavins chances of winning even if he had not had these controversies over the landlord/tenant dispute.

Anyone with Leadership ambitions will not be the one to take him down, that will be left to a minion of one of those with leadership aspirations.

Brian Lenihan Junior wanted to succeed Cowen. Unfortunately for him, he was terminally ill. Think that it was covered in Dan Boyle's book.

Martin is relying on the FF sheep bleating while not making any move against him. Naming a date would probably be one of the worst things that Martin could do because it would confirm him as a politically dead man walking. It would also trigger fights between Martin loyalists and other FFers about who gets upped in the inevitable reshuffle.

He's a dead man walking either way because lots of grassroots aren't happy with how badly Martin's personality/celeb picks have backfired at the polls. He's already overruled candidates from within FF for contests so really a showdown is inevitable.

All it might be is a tap on the shoulder and he'll go.

Oh I am sure there are no shortage of volunteers to take Martin down. McGuinness is another one, he was out first giving out about the presidential election fiasco.

To save money. The celebrity candidates already have a public profile so the party doesn't have to spend as much money promoting them as it would with a new candidate. Martin seems to have inverted that with Grainne Seoige

I'd say he refused because he got badly burnt and just wants to disappear and have nothing to do with politics.

Martin has done more damage to FF than Bertie Ahern. Under Martin, FF has lost its unique identity and much of its centre/centre Left support that kept it above 30% in the opinion polls. He essentially facilitated the rise of SF because he changed FF's position from being the main opposition to FG to being FG's supporter. Apart from the economic reasons for the collapse of the 2.5 party model, there has been a failure of political leadership in FF under Martin that has nearly destroyed FF as an independent party.