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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,723 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Quoting my post from a couple of weeks ago because I thought at the time that Boyle was being done a disservice but now I think he has been screwed. He hasn't played in a month already and will be completely cold if thrown in against Aus or SA. He most likely won't be involved in those games, outside of Farrell's hand being forced by injury, so would go 7 weeks without a game. That's not how you develop props.

    I know people will say being part of the squad is great experience but that's not the kind of experience he needs. As a young LHP, he needs to be playing, game time anywhere would be better than holding tackle bags as third choice.

    On the rest of the team, Osborne being wasted at 15 again. Delighted for Tom Farrell but he's not a long term option, I'd prefer to see Hume/Postlewaite involved as I think they could take the jersey from Ringrose.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,051 ✭✭✭50HX


    Yes v Canada.

    I'm not advocating him as a cert in WC just pointing it out he has a body of work done...not just the club minutes he has played here, therefore if he goes well its not inconceivable he could slot straight in.

    Thats a v different scenario to comparing him to the minutes paddy mc has



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,570 ✭✭✭OldRio




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,382 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    Andy Farrell said in his press conference yesterday (Murray Kinsella has it in a piece on the squad today) that Ryan Baird has bulked up to around 120kg this season (his playing weight last season was listed at 112kg).

    That's huge size to put on, and it looks very much like he's retained his speed and explosiveness.

    There's a strong argument he's the very best pure athlete in Irish rugby IMO; his issue in the past was games could pass him by and he just didn't seem to have the requisite rugby IQ to reach the next level. Something seemed to click for him at the back end of last season, and he's carried that good form into this season. Excited to see him keep going now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 888 ✭✭✭darkened_scrum


    Think he had 2 lineout steals last weekend, he still had the spring to get up off the ground. Really hope he doesn't lose that. 120kg is absolutely massive.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,570 ✭✭✭OldRio




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,069 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Farrell was also asked about Stockdale's return from the wilderness, he made a couple of references to Stockdale maturing and "having a word with himself", thought that was interesting.

    It's actually pretty informative if people give it ten minutes of their time instead of just defaulting to slagging Farrell off.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,029 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    That's great work if true.

    I wouldn't expect him to maintain the sane explosiveness or quickness if he's bulked up thet much. I certainly wouldn't expect him to be as explosive for as long in matches either. But that extra muscle will bring great benefits in other parts of his game. Swings and roundabouts.

    He doesn't look like he's lost much pace or agility, but he certainly made a big impact last weekend so good on him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 888 ✭✭✭darkened_scrum


    Stockdale played in the Autumn last year, so he was back in the fold at that point to some degree at least, and (typically) got injured again. I think people seem to have forgotten that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,988 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    I could see him becoming an important player for us in the medium-term, he's a good age profile and I've been very impressed by his work-rate, and especially his tackle technique. (There's been a few occasions over the few matches this season where he's chopped guys down, stopping them dead).



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,988 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    He responded well to that first lineout mis-fire to be fair, which seems like it was called on him. He needs to put a run of games like this together, imo to really grab hold of that 6 jersey.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭shootermacg


    Post edited by Lost Ormond on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,914 ✭✭✭For Petes Sake


    What the actual f*ck are you talking about?

    I don't need to Google Dan Kelly. I judge my rugby players on actually watching them and not just reading off the internet.

    You made the ridiculous claim that he's a cert to start at 12 at the World Cup in 2 years time and you cited one game against Leinster as your evidence, and then you started harping on about Paddy McCarthy as a deflection tactic because you seem to be of the opinion that others are making the same claims when they are not.

    "Up in arms" - ah, so now you're putting words in my mouth. Nobody is up in arms. It a stupid statement to make and I was having a discussion with others about it. You're the one who seems to want to make it into something it's not.

    As for saying it's 'very hard to take anything you say seriously' - you must be talking to yourself there mate, because this started with you making a ridiculous claim that Dan Kelly is a 'cert' to start at 12 at the next World Cup in 2 years time based on just one game.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 888 ✭✭✭darkened_scrum


    Post edited by Lost Ormond on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,914 ✭✭✭For Petes Sake


    The funniest part here is, it's whataboutery in response to their own claim.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,539 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    I wonder if they're looking at the age profile of the second row and thinking of moving him back in there in the medium term or just want him to have a bit more bulk to cover it as required? Seems a lot of weight for a player whose explosiveness is probably his best trait. Can't say I noticed him looking particularly bigger. Same issue with Izuchukwu and Ahern-do they see them as 6s or second rows? Having the 3 of them competing for one jersey seems to be overkill when we may be looking a bit thin at second row in a few years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,382 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    Very hard to know. They seem intent on selecting him at 6 where possible, but I still feel it's a position where Leinster are a little light right now (pending someone like COT or Spicer actually breaking through, if that happens).

    I like him in the mould of that big rangy blindside, and definitely adds some power into the pack.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,965 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    Guaranteed injury on the horizon.

    Yep, he is the closest thing Ireland have to a PSdT (The best forward in World Rugby) who is approx 115kg and a fraction taller.

    Baird at 120kg is 5kg too heavy. Without reading the article I'm willing to say - Nienaber had input.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,980 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    I can understand coaches not being very willing to bring in players who are constantly injured.

    It just creates disruption in the squad.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,000 ✭✭✭almostover


    Did not realise Baird had bulked up so much. It's an interesting one. He had a fine game last week at blindside but I wonder is this bulking being done to make him the long term replacement to Tadhg Beirne? Beirne is unlikely to make it beyond the next WC. Maybe Baird has been identified as the front runner to replace him at lock?

    As for Tom Aherne, I've been critical of us at Munster selecting him so often at 6. A position that we have loads of options for. He should be put on the Ryan Baird diet and turned into an out and out lock. The man is nearly 6' 10'. He's made to be a lock. The future at Munster is for him and Edogbo to pair up in the 2nd row. And that could translate over to Ireland if all went well. We're wasting our time playing him at 6 because sooner or later we're going to have Gleeson and Coombes in the same back row. One at 8 and the other at 6.

    Personally I think the same applies to Izuchuwku. He should be partnering Henderson in the 2nd row at Ulster and McNabney playing 6.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,980 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Baird has pretty much moved to 6 and I don't think there's any doubt that he's our best at the position now



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,918 ✭✭✭snotboogie


    The problem at Munster is the only durable player you mentioned is Coombes. All 3 of Gleeson, Edogbo and Ahern have gotten injured within a month of being called up for Ireland. Which is fairly typical for Ahern and Edogbo.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,965 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    You bulk Baird up to 120kg and you are effectively going to turn him into Henderson over time.

    100% agree on Ahern and at 6' 9" he is the player that should be identified by Ireland and Munster to play at lock with Beirne (& Edogbo).

    edit: and agree Izuchukwu with Henderson



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,382 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    The Ahern stuff is actually ridiculous at this stage - he could be sitting there on 8-10 caps at this stage potentially. He was called into squads on multiple occasions only to have to withdraw or miss out on selection through injury. It must be beyond frustrating for him.

    He's so physically talented, but still feel we haven't got to see the best of him at all.



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,345 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    if Baird is actually playing back row at 120kgs that would put him in a very, very small category of 120kg+ back rows. Guillard in france, Weisse in SA, Cunningham-south in England and Tom Hooper in Aussie are the only ones that come to mind.

    Hes only 26 so if hes able to carry that extra lumber without any noticeable reduction in performance he could become a very special player for us.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,000 ✭✭✭almostover


    Agree with you there, at this present time and until RWC 2027 he most likely is the best option at 6. But perhaps after that unless other 2nd rows come through he may switch?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,000 ✭✭✭almostover


    Head injuries to both have ruled them out of this series, not the type of injury normally associated with durability.

    The Gleeson thing too was a freak impact incident in the Leinster game.

    Not sure any of this points to a lack of durability in any of the players mentioned.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,000 ✭✭✭almostover


    It's a big if alright, I'm not sure he needed that extra bulk. Unless he's being moved to lock.

    Both Ferris and O'Brien spring to mind as players whose bulk probably contributed to their careers being injury interrupted.

    But maybe Baird has the genetics to manage the size. Time will tell.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,382 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    I think the style of play from Ferris & O'Brien was at least as much a feature of their injury history as their size. Would probably put David Wallace in that category too.

    If you carry and hit as aggressively all the time as those three did, you're going to pick up a lot of injuries.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,000 ✭✭✭almostover


    True, but why bulk up unless that was an element that you were going to bring into your game? No point being 120kg if you're not going to batter other lads with it.

    It could be too that Andy Farrell and/or Leinster want to have 2 backrow replacements on the bench without having to go for the 6-2 split? Baird becomes the man to move into lock then later in the game. That seems to be a plausible explanation.



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