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2025 Nov 01 | AI's Round 1 | Ireland v New Zealand | 20:10 GMT | VM in Ire / TNT & Discovery+ in UK

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,955 ✭✭✭almostover


    My big fear is that this could be the beginning of a very chastening series for this team. Australia are going to come all guns blazing and are improving under Schmidt who would love to get one over on his former assistant.

    The two players that worry me most currently are VdF and Ringrose. Both are miles off their best and have been for a while and we have no obvious replacements for either.

    And the lineout now is a total crisis. You can see that psychologically the players are spooked by it. It's costing us big time in games because we can't convert territory to points because of it. This is a real test of Farrell now and will define his reign, can he be ruthless and make the changes that are required. We're 2 years out from the WC and drifting badly. Can he course correct?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 393 ✭✭roverjoyce


    Who are the players on central contracts

    Aki, Lowe



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,355 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    James Lowe is not on a central contract.

    He also wasn't bad either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35 ruggedguy


    could be brutal for the Irish when SA comes around. That team is firing atm



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 31,510 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I am very much on board the "Australia are improving under Schmidt" train in general, but they were utterly awful against England today. If we can't beat them we are seriously in trouble.

    The lineout has been an on and off again problem for years, it is just not acceptable.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,730 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    I thought Doris showed up pretty well, considering he shouldn’t have been in the 23 at all, having played no rugby since May. He had a few very good carries, and was a nuisance at the ruck.

    We were the better side substantially for three quarters of that game, we just couldn’t press home and score at crucial points.

    The loss of Beirne, both is losing a man for 20 mins, and especially losing a player of his sublime quality was hugely significant.

    I don’t feel we lost this game up front though; we had enough of a platform to be in control with 15-20 mins to go, we just failed to execute, repeatedly.

    Half backs struggled to control things well IMO; Crowley’s kicking from hand was almost entirely poor, he had a pretty poor miss off the tee, forced things too many times and got caught badly in possession for the penalty that led to the turning point try.

    JGP was pretty poor too IMO - some good moments and some good kicking from hand, but poor reads too often and some poor passing from him too, and too many situations where he wasn’t at the ruck when needed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,845 ✭✭✭Heroditas


    No lineout once again. I'm actually struggling to remember it being as bad as this in well over 30 years. We used to suffer against the likes of England when Ackford and Bayfield made mince meat of us back in the day and you'd watch our lineouts through your fingers but this is.very similar! Zero confidence in it now

    No line breaks and no shape in the backs when we have the ball.

    Solve those two issues and you'd see a massive improvement. Apart from that, it was all huff and puff but not a lot less

    As for positives? Not am awful lot apart from TOB looking good and JGP had a good game. Crowley did well,.considering he had little shape to play with.

    Losing Beirne was ridiculous. What a farce of a decision.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 263 ✭✭noc1980


    Ultimately the lineout cost us that game. In our victories over NZ we've realised we need to score tries, we rarely took 3 pts and would go to the corner. Since the lineout couldn't be trusted Crowley had to take shots at goal and you're not going to beat NZ scoring in threes. I think it's fair only POC's legendary status is keeping him in that role.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,730 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    What worries me generally is they’re a team who match up very well to present problems for us IMO and have for a long time.

    Irish teams (Leinster very notably a few weeks ago in Croke Park) thrive off generating quick ball in attack because we just don’t have game breaking athletes for the most part, so if teams can succeed in going after our breakdown they can always drag us into an arm wrestle. Aussies have always had multiple elite jackal threats in their side for 30+ years now.

    They lack quality in certain areas, but they’ve buckets of pace and a real ability to mess up our ruck, that’s pretty much our kryptonite right there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 153 ✭✭Bart97


    It’s not, it’s a game that’s happens when most of the team has barely played.

    Oh good, I thought Australia would just come to Dublin and roll over.


    VDF has been miles off it for awhile, he was good for Leinster so far and in the first half today.


    Why are we spooked by the lineout is the question, it’s just not good enough anymore… if we are just going to let it continue to be a shambles then we might as well just throw in the towel now.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 263 ✭✭noc1980


    We never beat Australia comfortably though. They were hammered by Scotland last year but could and probably should have beaten us. Japan our only win seems more likely than not.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 331 ✭✭Tommysocks11


    I said it after the world cup that POC has to go, lineout is killing us and porter is just as bad at scrum time, gives away 2 or 3 penalties a game with his boring in



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 31,510 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Yeah, the breakdown was an absolute mess today. Their attack was incredibly one-note though and any semi-competent defence should be able to eat it up. It seemed almost entirely based off kick chase and using heavy close in runners (albeit, this works a lot too!).

    I would worry about our back 3 in the air a bit on the defensive side.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 31,510 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I'll more than happily take our only win being against SA but let's see how it goes…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,955 ✭✭✭almostover


    Fraser McReight had 5 turnovers today against England in a game where Aus were well beaten. He's always caused us bother when he's played agaisnt us.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 823 ✭✭✭bingobango12


    They were poor but the worry I’d have against them is Sua’alii will make sh*t of whoever we put at 13 and their pace against our slow backline.

    I don’t want to keep focusing on Crowley, but @Herositas, how can you say Crowley did well? What did he do well? Kicking was poor, 0 line breaks from anybody so his attack was poor and the changing of the game arguably came from him deciding to take contact instead of booting the ball.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,955 ✭✭✭almostover


    It's a game that's happening more often than not for this team now.

    VdF good for Leinster so far? He's been decent, but a shadow of the VdF who was world player of the year. He was well off it in the 2nd half and both him and Casey were garbage for the final try. This is the issue when he's had zero competition for his place in the team with 5+ years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,845 ✭✭✭Heroditas


    His defending was good, he nailed his kicks (bar one) and hit the line well. The problem was the overall attacking shape was dire. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Crowley v Prendergast person but I thought he was ok. Funnily enough, when he got scratched for that penalty the first thing that went through my mind was "ah FFS, Prendergast always gets caught in situations like that" 🤦



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,902 ✭✭✭KaneToad


    My player ratings:

    Furlong 6/10 - nice try, scrum was relatively ok, some good loose work

    Sheehan 5/10 - solid but did little to impose himself on the game

    Porter 4.5/10 - brought the physicality but little else

    Ryan 4.5/10 - a shadow of the former world class player he was

    Beirne - possibly the harshest red I've ever seen

    Henderson 4/10 - too slow, needs to be moved on, he was 100% correct though with his annoyance at ref

    Baird 7/10 - great lineout work, some good work in the loose, strong defence, a good outing

    Van Der Flier 6/10 - very solid as per usual but his soft shoulder allowed the Riogard try

    Conan 6.5/10 - very strong in everything he did, brilliant work to keep team mate from being driven out, odd decision to take him off

    Park 6.5/10 - much better than his shocker against Munster, his boot is one of Ireland's great strengths

    Crowley 4/10 - trying too hard, made the wrong decision too often, not a good day at the office for him, will get another chance in this window so will hopefully perform better

    McCloskey 7.5/10 - a very strong performance, the best Irish player today, should have stayed on but was goosed once Aki was in the 23

    Ringrose 4/10 - 0 line breaks for Ireland, one would hope the 13 wouldn't allow a stat like that to occur

    Lowe 6/10 - didn't do much wrong, had a stronger second half but failed to really impact the game

    O'Brien 5.5/10 - barely had a sniff so very difficult for him to have any meaningful impact on game

    Osborne 6/10 - solid again from him, but he's in danger of just being a solid utility player unless he can hold down a position in the centre

    McCarthy 6/10 - a fine debut, can only be pleased with himself

    Kelleher 4.5/10 - didn't do much wrong but was the weaker of the Irish hookers today. Didn't really impose himself on the game

    Bealham 5/10 - no howlers but no great impact. Solid.

    Doris 6.5/10 - great to see him back, a remarkable performance considering the circumstances, we really need his carries for 80 mins games

    Casey 4/10 - short cameo so had little chance to make a positive impact, unfortunately his main contribution was to let Riogard in for the try

    Prendergast 4.5/10 - didn't make any real impact but did have a slightly better outing than Crowley. Not sure he would have done any better than Jack had he been the starter.

    Aki 4.5/10 - should never have been on for McCloskey as he shouldn't have made the 23. Most memorable contribution was a woeful pass to Lowe that gave NZ a 5m scrum

    Farrell 5.5/10 - team were very green having played very little this season. To keep the game competitive for so long, with 14 men for 20 mins, was positive.

    O'Connell 3.5/10 - line out is a disaster, has been for a good while

    Goodman 3.5/10 - 0 line breaks. Zero.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,955 ✭✭✭almostover


    I wouldn't be too critical of Crowley for that particular play even though it has to be said he had a poor enough game overall. Osborne had knocked on in contact and Crowley was scrambling back field to mop up. His space to kick was closed down and he backed himself to step a lock forward and it backfired, Holland caught him by his fingernails. Couple that to a hopeless effort at a clear out by 2 Irish players and it was a game changing moment.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 31,510 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    His kicking from hand was pretty ropey (including two pretty terrible line kicks from penalties). He missed his only remotely difficult kick from the tee. The overall attacking shape is hugely part of his remit also.

    He still needs to start as he hasn't been put under any pressure for the jersey, but 10 is a glaring weakness in the team at this point. He had some very good interventions, and he can't control what's outside him but he was certainly in the bottom half of performers. Would rank a good few below him though. The centres need a refresh for sure.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 153 ✭✭Bart97


    It doesn’t though.


    Probably because the WPOTY VDF hadn’t only played 2 games going into the test window.

    No, it’s the issue when they’ve barely played this season.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,955 ✭✭✭almostover


    Let's see, come 22nd of Nov we'll know the answer.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 534 ✭✭✭sliabh 1956


    The Boys on Virgin must have watched a different match. They remain mainly positive about Ireland going forward, even Jack escaped any critical analysis .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 347 ✭✭thamus doku


    I blame Farrell 100% for Crowley and prendergast playing without confidence.
    He threw Crowley to the wolves last autumn and then completely over sold and blew up prendergast before he did the same to him.
    he should have stuck by Crowley and made him his no 1, and allowed a very young prendergast to naturally grow and eventually overtake Crowley.

    Beyond stupid what Farrell did. I said it at the time that it would hurt Ireland, Leinster and most of all prendergast.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭daithi7


    Yeah, a peculiar kind of performance really. Ireland were very much in control at the 60 minute mark, but they never were convincing leaders either tbh...

    Overall Ireland still look ring rusty & quite disorganised at times!?!.. which is a bad complaint at this level tbh. Ireland's attack looks poor & lacking thought or structure at times. Ireland's lineout was a complete shambles, I think they lost 5-6 of their own lineouts, that alone will lose you most test matches. Ireland really only got their rucking game going once, when they got a nice try after several phases tbf. But Ireland could not get their rucking game going fluently enough, often enough to threaten NZ. I didn't think Crowley played well, too many errors. Ireland’s midfield were poor, Ringrose made several poor defensive mistakes. Ireland allowed the ABs regather two of the their own kick Offs in the air, that's pish poor also, and in the last 10 minutes Ireland's backline couldn't put a rugby ball through their hands to run simple ball 9-14. That's pathetic!! These guys are supposed to be seasoned pros for heaven's sakes....

    Ireland were poor against a very average NZ team imho. Pity, cos NZ were there to be beaten imho....

    In attack, Ireland tried to out muscle NZ using McCloskey as a battering ram & trying to offload off him over the gainline. I thought he was OK, & this worked to an extent, but Ireland's rucking game, and subsequent play from their 9 & 10 failed to back up this work to make Ireland genuinely dangerous, more often. And to get in behind NZ effectively more often. I also felt the referee didn't police NZ offside effectively or their players running ahead of the ball and obstructing Irish players when they were in possession. A pernickety & poor performance from the officials imho.

    Without their rucking game & with their lineout spluttering, Ireland simply looked blunt & poor overall.

    Worse, in the last 10 minutes Ireland became a total shambles all over the park imho. Not being able to run a ball through your backline is failing rugby 1.01. Ireland ended up in tatters tbh....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,730 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    Yeah, good summary I think.

    Some of it had to be gameplan (and not his call) but even during the period while we were in the ascendancy we seemed to have a ridiculous over reliance on kicking garryowens, and every one of those I can remember he executed poorly.

    I too would back him to continue in the shirt, still think he’s probably our best option, but there is no scenario where he was anything but poor today.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,530 ✭✭✭Ben Bailey




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 954 ✭✭✭Rugbyf565


    McCarthy looked a bit shell shocked out there today when he came on, if I were Jack Boyle I’d feel hard done by.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,451 ✭✭✭For Petes Sake


    Did he? I thought he put himself about well, personally.



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