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Northern Ireland 2125?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,613 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    I never said it would be mandatory. Read what I wrote again:

    " With roads and streets becoming bi-Lingual now, would it not be politically correct, in time, for businesses to use both addresses? Just using one address implies political preference, same as if a business were to use "Londonderry" in their address or advertising? If you use one, you risk alienating some customers, especially as an increasing amount of people will use Irish only addresses. Therefore dual language on letterheads, advertising, websites will have to become dual language in due course."

    When I say " have to become", I mean if you want to avoid offending one section of the population. It is why you see Derry / Londonderry on a lot of advertising etc. Or to avoid awkwardness some just say "the city" or "in the north west" or whatever suits at the time, or, as you know, just call it stroke city.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    I am not convinced that a unitary state might not get over the line anyway.

    But the compromise could be a fereral solution with no toxic terms like NI. Both unionists and nationalist accept the term ulster so a fedral system with ulster which has no baggage as a council seems to be compromise.

    People who are insisting that one a UI cant be a unitary state, and two the toxic term NI must carry through in a UI are the ones that aren't compromising.

    Whats your obsession with the toxic term NI be carried through to this new UI state. You just admitted it has a toxic history. Unless your an exclusionary partionist you would have no problem with the term going in abew federal state.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,117 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    How do you know this only by a feeling in your waters.

    A Plan from the Irish government is as likely to succeed as your kicking a decision down the road solution.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    If Ulster is the six counties rather than nine, you are only talking about nomenclature and the State that people came from continues to exist. That might work, I don't have faith in it, but it might work.

    The term Northern Ireland is only toxic to those of a single unitary state Republican mind, to many it is their home.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,117 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I never said it would be mandatory. Read what I wrote again:

    The post you were replying to said it was suggested by a 'shinner'.

    Nobody is proposing this, it will of course be a choice, which they can already do.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    Ulster has 9 counties. Why cant a fereral system work on the provinces? Ulster is a term that both nationlists and unionists share and excludes noone and doesnt have jurisdictional toxic baggage. Surely if a fedral state was the compromise a council that excludes noone with no toxic history is the obvious solution.

    Brand them as you like but alot think the the term NI does excludes them and it obviously has toxic baggage. It is very rational that it will go In a UI, even in a UI fedral system compromise solution.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    A federal system in its own right is a separate discussion.

    A federal system to encourage a yes vote in NI is a different thing.

    The latter requires a federal system with the existing border.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,117 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Best of luck convincing the voters of Cavan Monaghan and Donegal that a federal system is a solution.

    Proposers of a federal system might remember that partition was originally sold as a temporary 'solution' and look how that worked out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    "The latter requires a fedral system with the existing border"

    What is the above based on? Your opinion? I would say the complete opposite. A ferdral system wjth terms that excludes noone is obviously what is required. The term ulster excludes noone. Tetm NI does. Term ulster has no jurisdictional toxic baggage. Term NI does have jurisdictional toxic baggage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,613 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    It is not often I would agree with FrancieBrady but interfering with Cavan Monaghan and Donegal would not work in a U.I.

    Ulster includes those counties as you very well know.

    The federal solition would include N.Ireland. That would be the only way to entice at least some unionists in to a U.I.

    Even at that, it would be a struggle, there would be many issues to be resolved and discussed.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,117 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


     That would be the only way to entice at least some unionists in to a U.I.

    If there is a majority vote there will be no requirement to entice anyone.

    The people of Ireland will have decided their fate and it will be the duty of the two governments to do what is necessary to make that happen.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,613 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Would'nt it be better for everyone if as many people as possible were on board to a U.I. if it were to (a) have a chance to get over the 50% line and (b) have lasting peace.

    No. You being a typical S.F. follower, want everything your way. No compromises. Goodnight. I have other things to do. Even though I am a southerner, the more I think about it the more I think unionists would be 100% right not to have any discussions on a U.I., or to have anything to do with it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,117 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Yes it would be great.

    But it isn't a block or a deterrent and shouldn't be. Because all Unionism has to do is stay belligerent and they have their veto.

    The 'unite the people first' nonsense is just that, effectively a veto for belligerents.

    If it is established that a UI happens if it is 51% then they will be more inclined to begin to engage positively.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,219 ✭✭✭itsacoolday


    Which is more important : unite the people, in peace and prosperity and harmony, OR unite the land on the island and have division among the people and troubles?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,117 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Any sign of that Shinner who is proposing all businesses use bi-lingual addresses?

    Stipulating that we cannot aspire to a UI until the people are united is bullshit. It’s handing belligerent Unionism a veto at best and an excuse for the Irish government sitting on their arses at worst. Not gonna fly for much longer.

    Post edited by FrancieBrady on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,219 ✭✭✭itsacoolday


    There are hundreds of thousands of shinner supporters. Bi-lingual signs are now compulsory even in some loyalist areas of Belfast. So addresses are already bi-lingual. And just as many businesses now have to say Derry/Londonderry to avoid offending people, the day is coming when nationalists on some streets will call it by the Irish name. Unionists / Protestants will call it by the English language name. Businesses located there will have to call it both to avoid offending people. Why would'nt that happen?

    Some would say part of the shinner plan to make the place that little bit more difficult, ungovernable and expensive.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,117 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    That’s a problem for bigots only. Everyone else will get on with life.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,219 ✭✭✭itsacoolday


    That’s a problem CAUSED BY bigots only. Everyone else will get on with life.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,117 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Mid Ulster today, judge told the anti Irish bigots to sling their objecting hook. Bi-lingual signs are law and they’ll just have to get on with it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,219 ✭✭✭itsacoolday


    Putting them up in areas they are not wanted flies in the faith of good community relations, and diverts money away from other better causes. Just so you can gloat having words of Irish in unionists places. Why are you so mean to your neighbouring communities? It would be different if the language had not been weaponized by republicans.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,117 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Typical, you will never look the actual bigot in the face and ask them what is wrong with them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 255 ✭✭lurleen lumpkin


    Better causes like this?

    https://mydup.com/news/investment-in-local-bands-welcomed



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,219 ✭✭✭itsacoolday


    What is wrong with you when you gloat having words of Irish in unionists places, when residents there do not want them? Why are you so mean to your neighbouring communities on this island? As noted already, it would be different if the language had not been weaponized by republicans.

    I would be equally hard on northern protestants if they were doing things not wanted in catholic areas.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    Loyalist area, as in the people who are loyal to the King? Who speaks some irish when he visits here and can speak Welsh.

    People will call it by the irish name if speaking irish or the English name if speaking English. Private bussiness can sell in whatever language they want. The Derry/Londonderry is noting to with the language it is todo with the name.

    Post edited by ittakestwo on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    By your logic if a public road residents consisted of a majority KKK members then they should be allowed have thier own bye laws for the road that no black people can use the public highway as they would be offended if they did. They would also use your argument that you are being anti democratic by allowing black people use the public highway as they form a majority on that public highway and dont want to see them. There is no rational reason to hate black people or a language. The law won't pander to bigotry.

    If you can argue there is rational reason to stop the indigenous language then the Republic and others parts of the UK like Wales and Scotland would have all made these rational cases againt dual signage too but they didn't as normal rational unbigoted people have no problem with the indigenous language on public highway signs, even if they cant or barely speak the language. But the only reason here is bigotry and the want to live in a colonial past of dominance and the law will not pander to it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,117 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    As noted already, it would be different if the language had not been weaponized by republicans.

    As I showed you earlier, ^^ that is arrant nonsense and is a Unionist/Loyalist whinge with ZERO basis in the reality of what happened in NI.

    The suppression of the Irish language has been Unionist policy since partition when the new Northern Ireland government excluded Irish from schools, public life, and broadcasting.
    Irish was not taught in most state schools, and funding for Irish-language education was blocked.

    The 1923 Education Act (Northern Ireland) gave local authorities control over curriculum — they often banned Irish from being taught or refused funding to schools that wanted to offer it.
    Teachers who tried to promote Irish sometimes faced disciplinary action or loss of posts.

    Irish place names and bilingual signs that existed were removed or Anglicized.
    The government promoted a vision of Northern Ireland as exclusively British, with English as its only public language.

    BBC Northern Ireland gave little or no airtime to Irish programming.

    Irish cultural organizations (like the Gaelic League/Conradh na Gaeilge) operated, but with no government support, and often faced social stigma in unionist areas.

    Funding for Irish-medium education or cultural centres was virtually non-existent.

    The Northern Ireland Office (under direct rule from London) gave very limited support, mostly to avoid controversy and as still happens even here on boards.ie to avoid offending Unionists.

    After agreement in the GFA, Unionist parties, blocked or delayed Irish language legislation for decades, arguing it was divisive or political.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,613 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    You say Unionist parties, blocked or delayed Irish language legislation for decades, arguing it was divisive or political. It was not Unionist parties who made the language political, it was the Republicans as we all know. How many times i the Kneecap film was it said that "Every word of Irish is a Bullet for Irish Freedom"?

    And what do you mean " The Northern Ireland Office (under direct rule from London) gave very limited support, mostly to avoid controversy and as still happens even here on boards.ie to avoid offending Unionists." What are you on about, is the Northern Ireland Office supposed to give grants to boards.ie to promote Irish? If people spoke Irisk then boards.ie or at least a large part of it would be in Irish. Instead, the owners have taken the correct commercial decision to keep it English only : they do not want to make it 50:50 like your -some would say ugly and political and divisive - signs in P.U.L. areas.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,117 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    And what do you mean 

    " The Northern Ireland Office (under direct rule from London) gave very limited support, mostly to avoid controversy and as still happens even here on boards.ie to avoid offending Unionists." 

    What are you on about, is the Northern Ireland Office supposed to give grants to boards.ie to promote Irish? If people spoke Irisk then boards.ie or at least a large part of it would be in Irish. Instead, the owners have taken the correct commercial decision to keep it English only : they do not want to make it 50:50 like your -some would say ugly and political and divisive - signs in P.U.L. areas.

    Did you think 'boards' was your starter for ten to sledge hammer in some nonsense to the conversation?

    Quite clear what it means. The NIO was afraid to fund because Unionists would be offended. The same way you and others here think Unionists should be appeased because they might be offended.

    You say Unionist parties, blocked or delayed Irish language legislation for decades, arguing it was divisive or political.

    Unionist brain dead strategy again, they thought they could supress a language - and took action legislatively (that's making it 'political' BTW) and otherwise to do that from the beginning of their sectarian one party statelet - they failed rather magnificently and spectacularly to achieve it.
    That you have bought into their whinge that it was 'The Shinners or a band of young fella's wot started it' is no surprise, you are a sponge for their propaganda.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,963 ✭✭✭csirl


    Irish was thought in many primary schools in the north post partitiion. My father learned Irish in primary school in the 1940s. Interestingly, the ulster dialect was thought - many of the phrases he has are alien to people who learned Irish elsewhere.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,613 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    You did not answer the questions. You cannot deny the language is weaponized and it is sad you take delight in insisting the language is put in to P.U.L. areas : it is not used for navigational purposes which is what signs are for, but used to taunt.

    Of course you being boards.ie most prolific politics contributer will come back and in another post with more insults about "Unionist brain dead" and yet more accusations "I am a sponge for their propaganda" etc.

    How many times in the Kneecap film was it said that "Every word of Irish is a Bullet for Irish Freedom", and given thousands of signs are being erected, do you not think that is too many bullets against someone not firing back yet? Yes or No.



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