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Artificial Intelligence, robotics and their implications

  • 18-10-2025 11:42AM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,655 ✭✭✭✭


    To boil this down to a simple question, why would the billionaires (or soon to be trillionaires) of the world want to keep around the masses of humanity who will, in the next decade or two, have been rendered essentially purposeless and a drain on the economy due to AI and robotics?

    Wouldn't they seek to kill off this section of the population in some way and, if not, why not?

    In a coldly analytical Brave New World sense, wouldn't it make sense to them to get rid of all these people who do nothing more at that point than consume natural resources and create pollution?

    Wouldn't they just want to keep the necessary numbers to maintain the new technological systems and maintain some sort of genetic variance?

    When you look at someone like Elon Musk, who has said that empathy is a weakness, would they really have any compunction about doing this if they could?



Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,604 ✭✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    I think the movie Wall-E pretty much nailed where we are headed unless something major happens. Here is a clip demonstrating what I mean:

    In short, a free workforce by way of robots and AI, leaving humans all day long to consume. The government taxes the corporations, this tax pays a universal income for all citizens, the citizens spend their universal income on consuming stuff the corporations get for cheap. Very cheap.

    Yes it sounds futuristic and dystopian, but are we really that far away from that now? People no longer ask do you have NetFlix OR Apple TV, they just assume you have at least one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,655 ✭✭✭✭briany


    I think there is a problem with your assumption that governments will be powerful enough to impose these taxes. The wealth these new technologies promise to create is utterly staggering and there's not much in history to suggest that the wealthy do not use increased riches to further entrench their political power. If you think western governments are bought and owned now, etc etc.

    Perhaps for a time a UBI might be introduced, but more as a salve to stop the world economy generally imploding, but I worry this would be little more than a holding period as the Curtis Yarvins of the world do some thinking on how to move to a post-consumerist economy where most of humanity is no longer really needed, the robots do all the grunt work, and an exalted elite get to live in a garden Earth…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,604 ✭✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    I think there is a problem with your assumption that governments will be powerful enough to impose these taxes. The wealth these new technologies promise to create is utterly staggering and there's not much in history to suggest that the wealthy do not use increased riches to further entrench their political power. If you think western governments are bought and owned now, etc etc.

    TBH I think you have helped enforce my argument.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,655 ✭✭✭✭briany


    If robots are doing all the work, it won't be long term necessary to keep a large population of humans around to consume.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 862 ✭✭✭reclose


    What work will robots be doing if there’s no humans around consuming stuff?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,655 ✭✭✭✭briany


    I can turn that question around to ask what value would all these people be contributing to the economy to then receive money that they can exchange for the goods and services that robotics and AI produces?

    In the robot/AI economy, the machines are the labour, and the only thing they need to receive for their part in the new economy is maintenance, power and some kind of general oversight.

    In this version of the future, humanity isn't necessarily wiped out, but vastly reduced to some sort of Georgia Guidestones level, i.e. a billion or less. Jobs would still exist, but mainly in the fields related to whatever roles AI/robotics cannot fill.

    The technology is moving so fast in this realm that I don't think the architects of it yet know what its implications will really be, but like I say UBI may be introduced as a holding solution until ways to move to a post-consumerist economy are figured out and then the question will be, 'what do we really need this other 7 billion people for?'.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 862 ✭✭✭reclose


    Having watched a nature program this morning you could argue less humans and consumption would be a good thing for the planet.

    It’s an interesting question though. Hopefully some insightful answers come.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,655 ✭✭✭✭briany


    You could absolutely argue that, and if you're a mega-billionaire sitting at the very top of the tree, you could say to yourself that getting rid of 90 percent of humanity would both allow you to keep your wealth and not need to share it, and heal the planet at the same time. Two birds with one stone.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,680 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    People exist.

    People consume.

    Jobs exist to provide goods for people to consume.

    If you removed the need for jobs, the why would the population reduce? Surely it would reduce already if that was the case



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,655 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Right now, economies basically run on the principle that people work to make money for the goods and services they use. In the post-labour world that AI and robotics promises to introduce, it will reduce large swathes of the population to a class who don't produce any value themselves, and only really consume, presumably by being apportioned wealth generated off the machines' effort to then pay for the stuff the machines generate. This seems like something of a redundant and pointless cycle from a purely utilitarian perspective and one that eats up a large amount of natural resources just to keep a large sector of the population alive just because.

    Not that I'm advocating for getting rid of most of humanity. Aside from my feeling I'd be in the goner bracket, it's just not a very nice thing to do. However, I'm not sure the super/hyper-rich of the world would see it quite the same…



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,138 ✭✭✭silliussoddius


    The sooner the bubble bursts the better.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,808 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    There has never been as much automation as today.

    There are widespread labour shortages today.

    Automation has not lead to falling demand for labour.

    We have serious labour shortages in Ireland, especially in several trades.

    The idea that automation will lead to widespread unemployment is false.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,655 ✭✭✭✭briany


    I mentioned a 10-20 year timescale in my OP, not right now. The wave of automation that AI and robotics promises to unleash could be nothing like anything we've seen so far in recorded history where it's not just one industry that is upended, but every single field you can name in fairly short order. And my question is, if it comes to that, what happens with the millions/billions of extant humans who suddenly find themselves surplus to requirements as far as work goes?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,138 ✭✭✭silliussoddius


    The whole tech industry is built on promises, AI is their last hurrah and it’s once that bubble bursts they will have nothing. Private equity will take a hit and hopefully with some hindsight they will be seen as the weirdo with savior complex that they are.
    I don’t see where the Robotics revolution will come from, meme stock hype merchant and ketamine enthusiast Elon Musk thinks Tesla will be a robotics giant. I don’t think there’s a large market for remote controlled robots that slowly serve popcorn.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,808 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    The faster AI and automation can start laying concrete blocks, the better.

    Can it do that?

    Can AI lay concrete blocks?

    Can it wire or plumb houses?

    Can it build roofs?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,099 ✭✭✭BKtje


    Eventually yes but if no one can afford what it creates then what's the point. Wealth is a social construct, if society breaks down then what is wealth but a piece of paper claiming that this is your land. Stocks would become useless and the factories producing the goods would have no consumers to buy their products.

    The farmer might become the ultra wealthy with his access to basic foods which people will always need, if he can manage to protect what is his in this future where society has crumbled. I would argue that the ultra rich NEED to find a way to keep society going, be that with universal income or some other method. The ultra rich could very well be the most "vulnerable" in a society where everything collapses as their wealth is either numbers in a computer or deeds on a piece of paper.

    We could have a future like mad max where the strongest survive or something like star trek where it is a utopia. Neither situation really benefits the ultra rich of today.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,680 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    There's some truth and a whole lot of nonsense.

    What's true is the bottom rungs of career ladders are disappearing. The days of getting into a career with a junior or leaving cert are long gone. A 2 year cert would be an absolute minimum to get into most jobs that would be classed as "skilled".

    A lot of higher-paying jobs and companies require a good higher degree and master's to get an interview.

    Buut, at the same time, there has been skills gaps in multiple industries for decades, regardless of the level of graduates and immigration. Many of the tech promises haven't come to fruition. Driverless cars were a big one ten years ago that has since failed to deliver. Not saying that AI won't replace jobs, but AI is a tool that will speed development.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,138 ✭✭✭silliussoddius


    The current AI industry is like a tech corporation version of The Human Centipede.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,138 ✭✭✭silliussoddius


    Of course Bill Gates. May I ask how has the population trended in recent years?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,808 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    This is all great stuff, I can't wait for these technologies to be implemented by the contractors across Ireland, and for supply of new houses to rise.

    Hoever, the robot laying blocks - there wasn't any foundation, and it isn't an actual building site.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37 The Venus Project


    Does the UBI not become the new 0 and prices rise by however much the bottom is getting - say bottom incomes of 20% average income are given as part of UBI - prices rise 20% in retaliation and the UBI becomes the new zero and obsolete.

    Secondly, how do countries compete if there is "equality". There is never equality between segments of society or countries therefore a tool to determine value and/or productivity is required such as monetary tools.

    Thirdly, fiscally speaking, if we hike taxes X amount to install a UBI - how and why won't the upper earners retaliate and create tax havens with mini armies because there is also never equality between countries? Are we saying the majority will overpower them physically through war to try and make a flat international system?

    Ultimately, despite my skepticism and cynicism, I am with Altman who is idealistically looking at how to improve the world and the human condition. However, without money or at least with less emphasis given to money, there will still exist extremes between success and poverty or belief in something vs. nihilism, which in essence is where the perception of good and evil come from. So it will not remove inequality or polarisation of opposites, preventing wars etc.

    Post edited by The Venus Project on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,138 ✭✭✭silliussoddius


    How is Altman trying to improve the human condition? The tech industry is riddled with weirdos with a savior complex, when this bubble bursts I hope they are thrown on the shite pile.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,315 ✭✭✭Dan Steely




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