Israel/Palestine Thread

I posted earlier about the members of the Israeli govt. Ben-Gvir and Smotrich are in their element.

I find it astonishing that anyone supports these particularly odious people and Israel.

"Some far-right ministers pushed Netanyahu for more extreme action in Gaza on Sunday.

Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich tweeted 'War!' while National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir urged the prime minister to resume full-scale fighting in Gaza with maximum force.

Minister Orit Strock claimed Hamas's attack 'is not a violation of the agreement, not even a significant one. It is a declaration, in action and in the clearest terms, that no agreement exists.'

But beyond Netanyahu's public commitment to advancing the Trump plan, Israel had additional reasons to avoid further escalation"

Jonathan Lis

Apologies for the double post

I've been here a long time.

Some will never lose the blinkers no matter what corroborated evidence is put before them.

There are entrenched Holocaust deniers out there that even with insurmountable evidence, they still deny 6 million Jews were slaughtered 80 years ago.

It is what it is. But I still call those posts out - simply because there are some who read this thread but don't engage. If my posts inform others and assist them in making an informed decision then that's a good thing.

It is tiresome to wade through the already debunked nonsense for the umpteenth time but if I said nothing at all, I'd feel a guilt of not at least trying to speak up for those who can't speak for themselves.

Powerful - in a depressing way.

The settlers are out of control. And they are being egged on by Gvir and Smotrich.

9th circle of Hell for the lot of 'em.

Further below is a link to a translation of the full piece called "The Black Time". It's a very very long piece. Harrowing, graphic, detailed and it certainly illustrates the ferocity and depravity of Hamas. But it equally illustrates the Hannibal Directive implementations on the day - there were many. Compelling reading if you want to know at least some of what happened. It's tragic and I genuinely feel sorrow for the IDF and Israeli citizens caught up in the heinous act.

By the way, to be clear, I don't enjoy calling out Israel for killing its own. Those people were betrayed by a murderous regime of Govt and military commanders. They were innocent and did not deserve to die by any hand, but especially their own people.

Note - the original piece was published in Hebrew by Yedioth Ahronoth. They typically provide English versions but not in this case. When you read it, it becomes apparent (to me) why they didn't translate it. The English translation is provided by others.

The preamble itself is lengthy enough - but here is more detail on the event you mention (14 known Israelis killed):

Porat told Israeli media that the Palestinians had treated them “humanely” but that the Israeli army ended a standoff with the fighters by deliberately tank shelling the whole house, even though captives were still present.

She later elaborated that the casualties of the Israeli attack included 12-year-old Israeli captive Liel Hatsroni. Hatstroni’s photo was later used in propaganda by Israeli officials, wrongly claiming she had been burned alive by Hamas – “because she’s Jewish,” former prime minister Naftali Bennett lied.

Vehicles stacked up near the southern Israeli town of Netivot, near Gaza, in November. They were destroyed soon after Palestinian fighters began taking captives on 7 October. A new investigation by Israeli journalists has concluded that 70 such vehicles were blown up by Israeli fire.

Many of these vehicles contained Israeli captives.

The journalists wrote that “it is not clear at this stage how many of the captives were killed due to the operation of this order” to the air force that they should prevent return to Gaza at all costs.

“At least in some of the cases, everyone in the vehicle was killed,” the journalists explain.

interesting report - stand out piece was Maccabi itself calling out its own racist fans. As they should of course - but indicative of how wild a small minority of the fans actually are. Shades of British hooliganism at the end of the last century.

All backed up by the Most Moral Army in the World.

That's some photo of Gaza City - says it all really. Perfect for the article.

It's a shame that there are people who debate in bad faith to support a corrupt narrative based on lies. But it's been common enough unfortunately. The only riposte is to debunk with corroborated evidence. For some, even that is not enough.

And you're bang on regarding the "antisemitic" call. I feel for Jews who are victims of real antisemitism.

I don't recall who said it - perhaps a Holocaust survivor?

"An antisemite used to be someone who hated Jews. Now it's someone whom the Jews hate".