Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

What's your evidence for him being on the ball far less than other 10s out of interest?

I can't find a link now, I'll see if I can later on, but Crowley made one single tactical kick from hand (excluding penalty kicks to touch) in the whole game against Italy as far as I recall.

No because Ireland ‘A’ are playing, plus there’s plenty of younger players in the squad of need experience already. Like I said previously, 47% of the squad are between 25-30. Other counties like Wales, England, NZL, Australia etc are throwing in youngsters because they don’t have a clue what they are doing so are in panic mode.

The only way there will be a repeat of 2023 is if we end up getting the same farce draw we got back then, which won’t happen under the new format.

Other than developing depth in the 10 position there was much we did wrong in 2023, the age profile and number of caps was roughly in line with what SA did who went on to win the tournament. Unfortunately, when you have a farce of a draw like the last time you were going to lose 2 great teams in the QF and we unfortunately were one of them. Don’t think just because it was “another QF loss” means it was the same as the previous losses…the only thing it had in common was the stage it occurred.

If we are going by the same metric that “we need to blood players”…didn’t France do that more than anyone in 2020-2023 and go out in the QF as well? If we want to use the fact that Ireland went out in the QF as a result of Ireland not blooding players then France can be used as a counterpoint.

I get your point. We have several players who are on a downward trajectory (past peak). I would have liked to see a few more blooded and reward ‘form’ over reputation/a perceived high ceiling. It’s a difficult balance but I fear at the next RWC we will see those same players and find they are well past peak. Time will tell.

Which is a very small sample size, and the NZ game was a bit of an aberration; we had a huge number of penalties, handling errors, turnovers etc. which obviously contributed to Crowley's lower number of possessions.

If you look at it over the season, Crowley average 41.4 possessions every 80 minutes, whereas Prendergast averaged 46.6.

Prendergast certainly higher, but also bearing in mind that, for some of those minutes Crowley wasn't at 10, so less likely to get on the ball. I don't think the difference is as stark as is often painted on here.

But the idea that a country like Ireland has a legion of test-quality players waiting in the wings if only the conservative coach would give them a chance is hard to credit.

This overlooks the scenario where Ireland indeed don't have a legion of test-quality players waiting in the wings, but yet the coach can still be conservative…. which is what I think we're seeing.

By your logic Jimmy O’Brien didn’t “seize his chances” on that tour having started both of those games at 15.

Jimmy O'Brien made his test debut three years ago and has played in a World Cup quarter-final; the Georgia/Portugal tour was not really relevant for him, his problem is that he's been overtaken by Osborne and Tommy O'Brien, both of whom made their debuts after him. This is an example of a coach bringing in new and younger players, which is apparently all some people care about.

Is Henderson what you would describe as “test-quality players”…

A guy with 85 test caps and two Lions tours? Well, probably, yes.

If all people want to do is scream HENSHAW IS PAST IT, WHY IS HENDERSON THERE and ignore all the actual new players coming through, then yes it is going to look conservative.

Again, it is all a matter of perspective and your pre-existing opinion of Farrell.

You probably should bow to the superior knowledge of the coaches who have been part of a regime that has given us the most successful years of Irish rugby and know a lot more about the players than we do. I suspect if they tried to come into your field and tell you how to do your job you may bat away their suggestions politely.

Ah look, they are fair points, syd.

I think we'd agree that you want to try build depth, in as far as that is possible with the players you have available, without having a huge fall off in quality between the first choice guys and the next in line, all while trying to continue getting results along the way. And it's a very difficult thing to achieve.

But at the same time, I think we need to be wary of the first choice guys pushing on in age, as deterioration in quality can happen more quickly.

At scrum-time, Healy was undoubtedly still ahead of Boyle, but Boyle offers more in the loose. (Healy was understandably looking increasingly immobile).

But there comes a point when the squad ages out (Healy, in this case, retiring) where we still need to name someone in the 17 jersey, regardless of whether they look ready or not.

And with regards TOB and Ahern - I'd argue that they are ready. (Paddy McCarthy understandably may not be).

That's true, I most likely would, while I do always appreciate a set of fresh eyes on what I do in my day job I'm not sure (as anybody should) I do reserve the right not to listen, just as the coaching setup have

Regarding their recent successes, 3rd in the 6Nations 2025, winning the 2024 edition with just one loss, a triple crown both years and getting through the pool stages in the 2023 world cup is nothing to sneeze at but I would like to see us learn from our mistakes and aim to do better.

If I'm wrong then, just as George Hook did all those years ago, I'll happily eat my tie

It say everything that you omitted the pertinent point I made on Henderson.

“He’s no longer Test Quality”

Your other misrepresentation of the Jimmy O’Brien non-selection as a coaches decision to invest in youth is what an IRFU PR man would try and spin.

His spot certainly hasn’t been taken by Tommy O’B or Osborne.

It’s been taken by another player. Stockdale. Who I would also argue is another player past his best.
And who is of course older.

I would think people have a firm basis to also say - Yes the coaches have superior knowledge but are they making the correct selections to push beyond the glass ceiling of Irish rugby?

Advancing beyond a Quarterfinal of a World Cup.

It’s a valid question.

It’s not a question anymore.

Ireland basically lost to NZ in the QF because they were knackered.

I see Ian Madigan making the same point today.

In 2023, our strongest squad beat South Africa on September 23rd, had a full week off, and then played Scotland on October 7th. We had 5 tries on the Scots after 44 mins, and we substituted James Lowe after 41 mins, Johnny Sexton after 45 mins and then all of Porter, Sheehan, Furlong, Beirne and O'Mahony after 48 mins.

So - when we faced NZ on October 14th, most of our main forwards and guys like Johnny Sexton had played barely any rugby in the preceding three weeks. We shat the bed in the first 20 mins against NZ and gave them a big head start, but we didn't lose that game because of tiredness in the squad.

Guys were obviously tired during the multi-phase sequence at the end of the game (and after an incredibly tough and absorbing game), but the notion they were overplayed coming into that game doesn't stack up to me.

It stacks up to me.
Even Look at the amount of minutes the forwards played in the group.

Basically full strength in all of those games.

Beirne played the full 80

v Romania

v Tonga??

v SA

Stated v Scotland and played 50

NZ forwards had nothing like that.
AND they had a full 8 day rest before the game after a facile win over Uruguay.

Ireland had 6 days.

That’s before we look at the backs…starting with the 38 year old 10 and 33 year old 12 who both looked bollicksed by the 60th minute of that NZ game.