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Orange is the new Burke

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,923 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    I think it’s well established by now that screaming at anyone you disagree with is a core tenet of the Burke family ideology



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,089 ✭✭✭KaneToad


    That's not strictly true. His sister is a very popular school teacher in a Mayo school. There are 10 siblings. I've only heard of workplace issues with Enoch and Ammi.

    Nonetheless they are religious zealots and do seem to struggle to live cohesively in secular society.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,489 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    The "very popular" claims about any member of the family are never actually backed up.

    Add in all of the ones that have had issues in NUI Galway, the one who couldn't get a barrister devilling master for a huge amount of time and the ones yet to get to the age where a career matters and I think we're well over 50% that have made huge problems for themselves - so far.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,349 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    The sacking hearing is due in two (2) months time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,009 ✭✭✭Hamsterchops


    OK then I will expand. You must learn to separate my condemnation of trans ideology (the belief system) from the actual people themselves, (who I have no truck with), but who are fed those non scientific beliefs by WPATH and the like. Burke was dead right to question the kids "non-binary" status, featuring a new name & new pronouns they/them, specially in a Christian school which does not subscribe to such teaching !

    Anyway, we all know why he was dismissed & jailed, and it wasn't to do with any of the above, but rather his verbal conduct, his contempt of court, and subsequent crazy behaviour hanging around the school. Interestingly, thanks to a more relaxed approach in 2025 if the Principals email was to be reissued now it would not compel /order teachers to affirm the childs non-binary status.

    Times have changed, the tide has turned, and the steam has gone out of the trans train as its ideological demands are now debated, challenged, and questioned by a more informed society.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,104 ✭✭✭Pentecost


    Tempting but probably counter productive in the long run!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,923 ✭✭✭blackwhite




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,784 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    Burke was dead right to question the kids "non-binary" status, featuring a new name & new pronouns they/them

    It is not his job to do that, so again, he let his ideology interfere with his job. You might think he was right to do so, but you are also wrong, that is not what teachers are meant to do.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,671 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    Also by Hamster's logic, should LGBT issues be entirely off limits across the Catholic schools in Ireland? They're obviously not and for good reason.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,009 ✭✭✭Hamsterchops


    You've actually got that back to front. The Principal let her ideology overrule reality biology and the Christian ethos of the school, and you might think she was right but you are totally wrong, as the Principal should have no powers to bestow a special status to one student. On this issue Enoch was correct to reject her email. It was not the Principals job to compel teachers to affirm a "non-binary" status upon a child.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,349 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    Just going on the last two sentences from your post above, can you provide us with definitive evidence of the two claims that things have changed so much since Burke chose the battleground he's on that you believe he has nothing further to fight for against what he claims is his ideological foe?

    Ditto on definitive proof of the principal to affirm a "non-binary" status upon a child. Perhaps you could revisit the history as to whom initiated the non-binary status where the child was concerned to ensure the story you relate is correct?



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,604 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    We've fairly robust workplace relation mechanisms and strong teaching unions in Ireland so Enoch should have engaged with them if he'd a problem. Of course he didn't and so I've no sympathy for him as this is all his own fault.

    Considering how strong workers rights are here I'm not fully convinced that his appeals hearing goes the same way as the first. He should be fired but I wouldn't be so sure.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,899 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    If the principal was wrong why wasn't a case brought against her? Are you, perhaps, confusing your opinion with the reality of what she was legally allowed to ask her teachers to do?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,579 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    If he is confirmed as sacked does that give the school, the courts or the gardai extra powers to deal with him?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 41,286 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    I really doubt any of the Burkes would join a union.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra
    I'm raptured by the joy of it all



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,104 ✭✭✭Pentecost


    Not really. The school already has an injunction banning him from the property and we all know how that's worked out. There's not really a lot more that can be done to him from a legal perspective to keep him away. The only real difference would be that there'd be no more money being seized every month to go towards his fines. That may be evened out by the Department of Education not having to pay his salary any more, though I'm not sure if they've replaced him already or not. If not then his salary potentially may have to be spent on a replacement.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,349 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    I am presuming that if his sacking appeal was over, then his presence at/in the school grounds would no longer be about his claim to be in employment there, then if he entered onto WHS property after that date, he would have entered into a different legal battle, a criminal trespass battle, not a civil trespass battle following on from a simple criminal complaint of trespass from WHS to An Garda against him. The issue of his contempt to the High Court would be over as that was all about a civil law offence, not a criminal law offence.

    Separately, I could presume that where an ordinary plaintiff was concerned, he/she might accept that the writing on the documents was final, that the case was finally lost and it would be best to walk away from WHS to seek employment elsewhere. We are dealing with a ideologically-driven group of 12 people here, not just one individual, and that has become the heart of his resistance to his unemployment status.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,784 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    So now it is the Principles fault is it?

    There was nothing to bestow, it was a simple request from the student to be referred to by a certain pronoun, Burke clearly has trouble being a decent human and has shown that ever since.

    If it is not the Principles job to reaffirm things, it is sure as hell not Burkes to tell a person what pronoun they should be using, ya know, based off the balanced teachings of Christianity.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,798 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Christian ethos of the school

    Christian ethos is supposed to be about love for one’s fellow man, tolerance and dignity.

    Victimising and hating people who are different, not so much, but it’s a handy excuse for people to give vent to their own prejudice and anger.

    If the whole Jesus thing was true, he’d be disgusted at what people like the Burkes are doing in his name.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,628 ✭✭✭Dr Robert


    That family are an absolute scourge to anyone who has to deal with them.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,701 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    They can manhandle in a pub setting but I don't know if the regulations are different.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,086 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    This security guard manhandling Enoch would be just what he wants to happen.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,685 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Considering how strong workers rights are here I'm not fully convinced that his appeals hearing goes the same way as the first. He should be fired but I wouldn't be so sure.

    They will disrupt the hearing, the firing will be rubber stamped.

    Then off to the WRC, rinse and repeat.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,685 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    The Principal let her ideology overrule reality biology and the Christian ethos of the school

    Who told you that?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,671 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    Yep the board of the school never took disciplinary action against the principal.. I think Hamster is just being a bit ideological on the topic. 😂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,089 ✭✭✭KaneToad


    You're shifting the goal posts now. The original claim was they "literally always cause problems where they work". This is not true.

    I'm not going to specifically name the siblings who have not had issues in work as it's unfair. But Google is free and you can easily find the names of all the siblings.

    There is no denying that this family are religious fundamentalists and their ideas & methods are not shared by many in Ireland (including myself). But there is no need to make up stuff about them. They have also won several court cases where they have been correct in their legal assertions.

    I think Enoch's current situation is entirely of his own making. I don't agree with his statement that he's been jailed for his beliefs on transgenderism. I think the school was entirely correct in their actions to prevent him entering the school. I think he was correctly (initially) suspended for his behaviour towards the principal.

    I also think, had he rationally pursued a legal challenge against the schools request/demand to use preferred pronouns, he may have been successful. Whether it was a request or a demand would be decided by the court. However, it seems clear that Enoch is more interested in the "martyrdom" of his current stance - the Burke family are very legally savvy & they know how to challenge a decision. They've chosen not to do it correctly in this instance.

    Exaggerating or lampooning their behaviour is unnecessary. The facts are there for us all to see. It's an important lesson to us all about the dangers of religious fundamentalism.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,489 ✭✭✭✭L1011




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,685 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Exaggerating or lampooning their behaviour is unnecessary.

    Lampooning their behaviour is unnecessary?

    How did you come to that conclusion?



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 17,422 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    The principal didn't do anything other than request that the staff follow the law of the land (the equality act) and to treat a human being with basic decency.

    Everything that happened afterwards was100% the fault of Enoch Burkes( and his familes) inability to behave like functional members of society.

    To suggest otherwise is laughably disengenuous.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,009 ✭✭✭Hamsterchops


    "it was a simple request from the student" …

    Not sure of you're pretending not to understand, or if you really haven't got a clue?

    Example: William now twelve, has been convinced by social media that he's "trans", and that he's neither a boy nor a girl, but something else in the middle like "Non-binary". He wants to be called by a new name (Fiona), he also wants to referred to by new pronouns (they & them) !!

    The Principal of the school agrees to these demands and sends out an email to the teachers in this Church of Ireland school, telling them to comply, but Enoch quite rightly says NO it's not part of our Christian ethos, and it's certainly not part of Church teaching, so I'm not doing it.

    The ideology of trans is all about bestowing and affirming new "genders" upon children, giving boys female pronouns, or giving girls boys names (with male pronouns), or in the Burke case affirming a child with the trans "Non-binary" status as per the teachings of gender ideology.

    All of this is just based on a belief system, the belief that a child's sex is "assigned" at birth and that their true inner soul or "gender identity" may differ from that which was "assigned" to them. This is pure trans ideology. Not base in science or biology, but purely based on a belief system (that everybody MUST buy into), or else ……

    The process of affirming & converting William into the non-binary (Fiona) is an act the Principal instructed the teachers to go along with, and Enoch said no ….

    Enoch was totally correct, and I support him on this.

    Leaving the Genesis of the story to one side, we are all well versed in all the drama that's happened since, but what next? What happens everyday as Enoch cannot get passed the security guard? Like what's his next move, or what's the schools next move? Off to the clink again? or more fines or what …….



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