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Presidential Election.

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,835 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    Why would she/they do that? She's cetainly looking a lomgshot at this stage but something can always turn up at the last minute, especially with a candidate with as 'colourful' a track record as CC…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,110 ✭✭✭MFPM


    You're not if you support the SCC, it's a state of exception to borrow from Agamben and there is zero justification for it in the 21st century - there are multiple ways the issues you refer to can be dealt with.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,110 ✭✭✭MFPM


    Why on earth would she concede?

    There's every chance she wins, there's still ten days to go - hopefully her campaign continues as irrelevant as it has been to date. However, the coordinated announcement of support today admittedly from broadly irrelevant and/or insignificant ex politicians shows FG intend fighting on....Even Simon Harris came out from hiding to talk about momentum, faithfully and uncritically reported by multiple 'journalists' and outlets.

    Post edited by MFPM on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,064 ✭✭✭Ozymandius2011


    You seriously think we could try the drugs gangs, including the 2 big ones, with a jury?

    Cases where the Supreme Court upheld the constitiionality of the Supreme Court include:

    O’Reilly v. Attorney General [1985] I.R. 117 , The State (Walsh) v. Lennon [1939] IR 112, and then more definitively in O’Callaghan v. Attorney General (1972) and later cases.

    • In a 2016 poll (Irish Times / Ipsos MRBI), 67% of Irish voters supported retaining the SCC; 21% favored abolishing it; about 12% were undecided. Link: The Irish Times
    • Support for the SCC was broad across major parties: Fine Gael, Labour, Fianna Fáil, and Independents had high levels of backing. Even among Sinn Féin supporters, although more divided, a slight majority favored keeping it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 231 ✭✭Enter Username Here


    I was quoting your post back to you, and planned to alter your usage of "cross community" to "across the community" and then "through the community". It wasn't important enough for me to remember as the main points were there.

    It is an orange order event, you can paint it however you like, but it is an orange order event. Some of the community may have tried to dilute it into being something else, but the "Drum accordian band" and the rest are all from the Orange lodges.

    You can try to keep convincing yourself that it is a community event and that the whole town enjoys it as a big get together, but don't try to convince others. It is a group of hate filled sectarian bigots attempt at rebranding themselves so that they can continue to march throughout much of the town, but without changing their core beliefs. Every year they try to get back to their pre-1998 parades and are still intent on marching down Garvaghy road.

    You haven't a clue what it is if you think everyone is having a knees up because some of the tunes played aren't deemed offensive. Such nonsense.

    Even their 'grand orange lodge' websites bleat on about it 30 years later. Attempting to belittle the residents of Garvaghy road and citing that it was originally farmland and not many houses face onto it, so basically those that do, should just deal with it. Pathetic attempt as to why they think they are justified marching on it.

    There are approximately 900 houses along the disputed 600 metre stretch of the Garvaghy Road.

    Only 66 houses face directly onto the Garvaghy and Drumcree Roads.

    Less than 10 houses (less than 1%) have addresses actually on the Garvaghy Road.

    75% of the houses are between 100-600 metres away from the Garvaghy Road.

    You can try to justify it with them, But it is you that doesn't have a clue.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,110 ✭✭✭MFPM


    Yes, of course, there are multiple ways that juries can be protected and witnesses too without resorting to these courts.

    The conviction rate is more than double that of the circuit courts, and a third higher than the central criminal court - those figures alone should raise concerns.

    Support for something doesn't legitimise it, only a minority of US citizens consistly agree with closing Gitmo, an indefensible opinion clearly!

    I've no doubt if there was an informed debate on the SCC, those figures may change.

    Look at the way it's been used in the election campaign, it's being used to attack CC as if there was no merit to her position on the SCC, a position supported by human rights organisations, the UN etc. Of course no journalist intervenes in the debate (that I've seen) to challenge the narrative or question the hegemonic opinion of the establishment parties....it's one more issue thrown up by this election that illustrates graphically the very real problem of contemporary political journalism and it's an important reason why CC has to win this election...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,716 ✭✭✭skimpydoo


    She won't do that as it will make the election a farce. FG are not that stupid to do that. Are they?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,387 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    The conviction rate is high because the SCC only gets the most serious cases,a lot or most of the cases are a slam dunk anyway.

    It's not just about protecting jury's,which would be impossible long term, it's also about preventing jury interference.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,811 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    I mean FFG already made a farce of it with their nominations.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,703 ✭✭✭jmcc


    Could be another twist in this election on the way. According to reports of the Dr Cora Stack hearing on X, the judge stated that "the party whip can be used in many situations, but not in a presidential election selection process". The judgement has been reserved and will be delivered in writing on October 23rd.

    https://x.com/MCompassMedia/status/1978162777517703359

    Regards…jmcc



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 114 ✭✭casey jones


    The Garvaghy road issue was resolved in the 90s, 30 years ago, nothing to do with a band parade in Drum. Most people have moved on since then, well some like eirigi and their equivalents in loyalism haven't.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,656 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    I'm not finding that quote anywhere beyond a Facebook account and this Twitter account. So I'd be highly suspicious of if it's even a real quote. Even if true, it would only really have an impact on future elections I imagine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,703 ✭✭✭jmcc


    If accurate, it could be a major problem for the validity of the election and the process. It all hinges on the judgement.

    Regards…jmcc



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,656 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    Given the fact that no news outlet is even reporting that quote makes me suspect that the election will proceed as normal.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 79,512 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The Garvaghy road issue was resolved in the 90s

    😁😁

    Every year, same old, same old. This is from 2025.

    image.png


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,063 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    If it is even true, I suspect it is just the judge summarising the plaintiff's case. At the end of the day, the whip is nothing more than an internal party disciplinary process so the argument makes little sense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,630 ✭✭✭ilkhanid


    The OO of the tiniest majority-protestant community in the country likes to intimidate the local catholic population? Now I've heard it all…the bigotry demonstrated here is off the scale. Has anybody asked the catholics around Drum if they feel intimidated?

    Post edited by ilkhanid on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,656 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    Yep, it's an out of context quote at most. If there was even an inkling of a scandal journalists would be jumping on any story atm.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 79,512 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Tell me this, is removing the original Irish name off their village/townland signage (against the law of the land unless they got some derogation) 'welcoming' to those who consider themselves to be Irish?
    Would you consider that intimidation? Would you consider it bigotry against the Irish language?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Not included in 2025. Our media has a pretty narrow political bent, is conservative in nature and pays lip-service to most alternative views. I like that the Irish Times can have columnists that are pro-Unionist (Newton Emerson), staunchly conservative Catholic (Breda O'Brien) and strongly feminist (Una Mullally) but it's greatly skewered towards the safe status quo and reacts angrily when that is put in any jeopardy.

    The non-Irish ownership of the Irish Independent, Sunday Independent, Sky, Newstalk, Virgin, Today FM and many others is of concern due to influence that can, and is, being exerted. A 'don't rock the boat' ethos is what we have in the media here. That ain't balanced.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The whole Dáil access debate thing has gotta be done. Everything covered and I'm not engaging with the same repeated points anymore.

    In other news had you noticed the 'strong debate performance' by HH? When was this? 😁😂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,631 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Can a party legally use the whip to influence the presidential nomination process though? I imagine that's where the constitutional element comes in i.e. actively preventing councillors and Oireachtas members from participating in the nomination process.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,063 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Why not? Again, it is a purely internal disciplinary measure. No one is stopped from participating in the nomination process - the whip merely says that you can't be a member of our club for a bit if you do something we don't like.

    The idea that it would be unconstitutional to use it in the Presidential nomination but not in the Parliament is nonsensical.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    So why the opprobrium from Amnesty International, the United Nations, Irish Council for Civil Liberties, Human Rights Watch and most lawyers. They've all been critical of the DPP's discretion to send cases to the court without needing to provide reasons and the use of "belief evidence" by the Gardaí, which they argue is contrary to fair trial principles. Why is a supposed 'terrorism' court being used for basic organised crime?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,716 ✭✭✭skimpydoo




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,631 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    I think the issue would be that this is not a Dáil vote : obviously the whip system is used there all of the time. A presidential election is completely separate and has nothing to do with how the Dáil operates on a day to day basis. The question that would appear to be being pursued here is if it is constitutional for a political party to prevent its individual councillors or Oireachtas members from nominating a presidential candidate they want to nominate.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,063 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    a) they are not "preventing" them, they are warning of consequences to their standing in the party if they vote differently

    b) there is no reason the process for passing legislation would be constitutionally subject to a whip but the process for nominating a Presidential candidate it would be unconstitutional. Both are just processes laid out in the Constitution without reference to any party mechanisms at all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,656 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    They can still back a candidate if they so wish but may face internal disciplinary procedures. Internal processes are not something the Constitution holds an opinion on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 200 ✭✭sdiff


    Anyone know if or when we can expect further polls?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,716 ✭✭✭skimpydoo


    In Heather's case it was Murphy's Law "Anything that can go wrong will go wrong"



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