Presidential Election 2025

We elect candidates. We don't elect supporters. I would not have voted for her, but I'm a great believer in including different points of view. Mostly Steen may not share my views, but once in a blue moon she says something I agree with.

Overall I like our institutions and think they have been more effective than others in the West in blocking authoritarianism. I think though that we should not equate conservativism with anti constitutionalism. This do so risks pushing more to anti constitutionalism as I think happened in the US.

Regarding the term "woke", it was originally coined by the Left. Then US Rep. Ayanna Presley (Democrat) some years ago called on supporters to be "woke".

I think our democracy should reflect public opinion. This opinion is maybe 70% liberal on cultural issues (except maybe on trans issues where it's complicated because of issues like sports) and about 60-40 on favouring the free market Vs socialism.

We can debate what it means to be far right. For me the right wing could be seen as semi-conservative on societal issues, and properly conservative on fiscal policy.

The block i am referring to, is placed to the right of all of the above. It is akin to a 'Maga offshoot' in Ireland, and yes it remains fringe, AT PRESENT.

What really cannot be debated is the fact that, to a man, they backed Maria Steens Nomination. Aontu would probably be the closest to Steen in terms of its views, and its origins. Toibin obviously fell out with SF over their stance on abortion, but Aontu went well beyond merely becoming a Pro Life version of Sinn Fein. I would not yet refer to it as, Far Right, but it is adjacent, and probably the most right wing party in Ireland (excluding the National Party, and other pseudo-political groups)

As to the Christian Right, versus the Far right? Well, depending on ones own position, that could be argued as being a distinction without a difference. I see your point, but Steen herself did absolutely nothing to dissuade the obvious Far Right characters from supporting her. We could debate that, and what it meant.

Frankly, i am happy for this group to go ahead, found a party, and run in elections. We are a democracy, and any attempt being made to 'shut them out' would be undemocratic. What was NOT undemocratic was Steens failure to be nominated. She tried to mount a late-in-the-day nomination bid, and lost out. The process wasnt unfair, or undemocratic. She ran out of time, and lost. And what is also not Undemocratic, is this election. Due to Fianna Fail ineptitude, we only have two candidates, in a democratic race. Its frustrating for those who dislike either candidate, but it remains a democratic campaign.

Also attacking RTE's editorial integrity for 'failing to engage with anti-immigration activist' is ludicrous. They have the right to decide what meets their standards for coverage, and what doesnt.

Is it not up to the 'social right' as you've termed them to get themselves elected onto local councils and get TDs elected to the Dáil if they wish to be represented more in Irish politics?

Yes, I would view Steen as a 'right leaning Catholic conservative'. The likes of Malachy Steenson and McGuirk might be supporting her, but one wonders just how much they really have in common with her.

There is literally nothing stopping any citizen running for local councils or the Dáil. Once you are 18 years of age (council), 21 for the Dáil, resident in the country and a citizen you can run for public office.

The presidential office is held to a higher bar. If the 'social right' wants to make in-roads in Irish politics, local government and the Dáil is the place to start.

Its a trick pony that only works if you’re actually delivering results for the people - the issue isn’t FF/FG shutting out SF- the issue clearly now is that SF was shut out AND FF/FG have failed to sort any of the major issues- housing likely the #1 issue which also then impacts immigration, rising costs etc etc etc

The next election will be devastating for FF - they can’t hold back the left tide any longer - Labour better get their acts together as currently they look asleep

Thats a very valid point pal, i cannot deny that. I dont know how we can deal with this type of movement. It succeeded with breaking through in the US, the UK, Hungary, and in many other areas it is fast growing.

Honestly, i hope its clear to you at least: All i am doing is giving my opinions, which are backed up by facts. I think the best way to fight this growing radicalization, is to highlight it, and refuse to allow it to 'disguise' itself as something more respectable. Using terms like 'establishment', 'elites', in refernce to run of the mill politicians; movements wanting to defund RTE - in my honest opinion, they are clearly representative of a growing movement. And its appealing to many disaffected voters. We just need to reach out to those voters, and message them directly. And if nothing else, warn them of bad actors attempting to recruit them.

Its a tight-rope too because along the way, we invariably get caught up in debates with genuine moderates who might seem to derail our positions, as being undemocratic, or being a 'smear' on more respectable conservatives.

Anyway, happy to discuss, although probably off topic for this thread.

And that 30% don't vote on social issues in general elections - they are decided on basics like economy, health, etc

These voters are rightwing but often in a Catholic context rather than the unholy alliance with billionaires and Thatcherite/ Reaganite cuts to welfare seen elsewhere. Law and Justice party in Poland are an example , combining cultural conservatism with generous welfare, at least for groups like families with children.

American and British conservatism have some features that owe more to Max Webers concept of the "Protestant Work Ethic" when it comes to policies on tax, business deregulation, union busting and welfare cuts.

That's pretty much what Aontú are. Liberal on fiscal policy, conservative on social policy. They have candidates in the local and general elections if people wish to vote for this position. Nobody is excluded.

You're not communicating anything, it just goes straight to a spoilt votes pile and forgotten about.