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Manchester United Thread 25/26 - Teamtalk/Transfers/Gossip Mod Note in OP 26.09.24

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,868 ✭✭✭✭keane2097


    Who are the elite managers in the world currently anyway?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,049 ✭✭✭✭johnnyryan89


    Should tell Glasner he only gets the job if he's able to get Wharton to come with him. Might actually have a decent midfielder for once.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,049 ✭✭✭✭johnnyryan89




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 488 ✭✭kyleman


    I was just wondering the same.

    Pep and Ancellotti are the only ones I can think of at the moment.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,511 ✭✭✭BenK




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,837 ✭✭✭Hodors Appletart


    Klopp surely, or is only people actively managing teams?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 488 ✭✭kyleman




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,837 ✭✭✭Hodors Appletart


    ok sure.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,711 ✭✭✭Caustic


    who do you think they are. or do you think there is none?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,371 ✭✭✭El Gato De Negocios


    Do you believe PG would have been able to achieve what JK did at BD and LFC given the exact same financial limitations? I personally dont and if given the choice between them to manage us, its JK by a country mile. For my money, Carlo is top of the pile for sheer longevity. Followed by JK, then Pep. After those three an argument could be made for LE for 4th spot.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 48,937 ✭✭✭✭Mitch Connor


    imo Pep is at the top. Klopp if he came back to management would be too. After him I dont think there is an 'elite' manager around. People (inc. me) thought EtH was the next manager up, and it didn't work here. People (inc. me) thought Amorim was the next of the new breed… and it hasn't worked out at all.

    Iraola from a PL perspective is probably the most likely looking, in terms of managers not at big clubs. Germany always seems to have a few young coahces - the guy at Frankfurt the latest to be pointed to.

    Ancelotti is a great man manager, but I wouldn't be looking at him for UNited tbh.

    Arteta gets results, even if i don't like how he has evolved arsenal.

    Inzaghi would be in the discussion imo, but going to Saudi removes him from the concisiousness imo.

    Alonso did amazingly with Leverkusen and I think he was our dream target, but never possible.

    Conte is probably up there or getting there - success at Chelsea, done wonderds with Napoli. though his Jose-esque ability to blow things up is also kinda legendary.

    Pochetino fell away after Spurs tbh, though I think he was turning the corner at Chelsea and they were silly to sack him.

    Conte is one I'd be very interested in at this point. We have moved towards the formation he is most famed with. He knows the PL, he won the PL, he has won in Italy, done well in Europe.

    He's also done wonders with our cast offs over the years, imagine what he could do with the guys we kept!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 48,937 ✭✭✭✭Mitch Connor




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,777 ✭✭✭Iseedeadpixels


    The best in class back this utter tripe.

    Screenshot_2025-10-02-14-26-18-676.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,603 ✭✭✭randd1


    I'd take Klopp over Pep. Nothing against Pep, his ridiculous record speaks for itself and he's taken every team he's gone to to another level, but a lot of his success was built on the back of others top work.

    When he took over at Barcelona, they were already a UCL and league winning team under Rijkaard, stacked full of some of the best players in the world. At Bayern, he walked in just after they won the treble under Jupp Heynckes. He took them on another level (without winning the UCL). At City he had a club with unlimited funds and unlimited corruption to do whatever they please, Pellegrini had won them the league and a few cups in the previous few years and they were a consistent top 4 side for a number of years.

    Klopp on the other hand, well he built two clubs up from low bases and with much less funds that what Guardiola had to spend, and turned them into power players in Europe and domestically. He created the culture and the drive of those clubs, and generally massively improved players when they came in.

    To put it simply, if you want to build for success then get Klopp, you want to build on success then get Pep. But Klopp can what Pep can, the big question about Pep is could he do what Klopp did? I'd have my doubts, picking one or the other, I'd have to choose the German.

    And yes, despite their connections to rivals, I'd take either in a heartbeat over our current incumbent. Oh, to have someone of their calibre over us.

    Hell, it's so bad right now I'd take Brucie at this stage. He might keep us up.

    Post edited by randd1 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,603 ✭✭✭randd1


    And that 34 points is heavily padded by 13 of them coming in 5 games against promoted teams (including the last minute penalty win over Burnley).

    It's genuinely bad beyond belief.

    I'd say Saturday is Amorim's last day, and a chance to say goodbye to the fans that suffered through him. Or if it's another defeat, a chance for the fans to say "go, for the love of God, just go".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,868 ✭✭✭✭keane2097


    I think there might be close to zero in the way people seem to mean when they talk about United hiring a proven elite manager. Klopp might be the closest thing to it in terms of proven record of taking on sub-elite teams and turning them into elite teams.

    But these guys all have finite lifespans as well which I think is really ignored more than it should be. That seems to happen as the overall tactical landscape evolves past them (happened to Jose, seems to be happening to Pep) or they lose the will and/or the aura that sustained them (seemed to be happening to Klopp at the end).

    This is something you see in other sports where a manager comes in and has huge success with a new tactical idea or approach and are revolutionary etc. Ten years later they are struggling in mediocrity trying to implement the same stuff when the game has evolved beyond it. Pep's ability to shape the tactical landscape for an extended period has been pretty incredible but showing signs now that even he might be struggling to make the next evolution with the game.

    I think bucketybuck might have the correct perspective on this when he says you find the guy whose characteristics and record (some mix of these two) give the best indication that they can be successful in the future. The 'future' part is important here, if you overindex the 'record' you can end up with Jose or LVG at the wrong part of their trajectory. Doesn't mean you have to plump for inexperienced people either of course, but you have to be wary of hiring a guy who gets you playing like an elite team in 2022, but now it's 2028 and this structure is worth a mid-table place.

    I think you really have to get these guys on the way up, and you might have to cycle through a bunch of them before you land on the one where ability and circumstances combine for success.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,868 ✭✭✭✭keane2097


    Like I would be absolutely amazed if Jose or Conte ever put together a premier league winning setup again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,711 ✭✭✭Caustic


    Id say I probably would agree with that for sure..the football landscape has changed so much recently it's hard for any manager to find a meaningful edge for even a short amount of time without it being countered or copied.

    I think if Enrique wins another champions league with psg in a similar manner and his tactics or tweaks continue to be copied by managers he would deserve a shout, if pep can reinvent city again or maybe if Alonso manages to make Madrid a tactical flexible team while keeping all those big egos in check.

    Managers probably are becoming less and less important in this data driven world. And the clubs who are just run the best top to bottom finding all the success



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,503 ✭✭✭Daroxtar


    We should have gone for Simeone when SAF left and we should have gone for him every time since. However we should never forget the dirty parasite b@stards that got us into the state were in now and what effect they've had on every manager for the past 20 years



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 20,302 ✭✭✭✭y0ssar1an22


    ancelotti or pep would have been in with proper succession planning.

    my tinfoil hat theory on this is the brains trust would get proper control of the club after SAF retired (and gill). if another bigdog was appointed they would have come in and immediately had similar levels of aura as SAF, therefore they appointed moyes. the club at the expense of the brains trust getting control.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 488 ✭✭kyleman


    Too many decent managers and countless excellent players have failed at this club and it will continue as long as we have the parasites in charge.

    Short term getting a new manager who improves results will quieten the noise but our owners really don’t care as long as our turnover remains huge and they can take their dividends.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 20,302 ✭✭✭✭y0ssar1an22


    1.5 at home to sunderland at the weekend. crazy price, where you can get a 50% return.

    depressing thing is, i wouldn't take that bet. they should win, they might win but who has faith they will?

    a newly promoted team. i suppose we'll put up with this for a while longer per whitwell (is he any good as an aside?).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,168 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    surely not if we lose, it's an international break, they'd have to get rid? He's making the brains trust look like fools on top of everything else - no other big club would put up with this level of failure.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,903 ✭✭✭keeponhurling


    I'd like to think that the search for a new manager has already begun behind the scenes. They'll be sounding out candidates to see their interest levels.

    If there's any truth in the rumour about the 12m compensation only being due if he's sacked before November 11th, then maybe they wait until that. Especially if they've don't have anyone lined up yet, we don't know.

    It's 5 more matches and then Nov 11th falls within an international break.

    Ruben Amorim's multi-million exit clause that could block Man United exit | Sporting News United Kingdom

    His coaching staff are mostly Portugese and "his own people" so no obvious in-house candidate as interim. (Maybe Darren Fletcher?) But for now we probably keep Amorim as interim coach until a new permanent successor is found.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,168 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    what's European football worth? the longer we leave it, the more difficult it is to salvage the season.

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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 18,762 Mod ✭✭✭✭DM_7


    As it is so early in the season there may be a view that the team can move up the table quickly.

    How relatively bunched up the league is means the club could be looking at things within their data and convincing themselves that the signs are there that the team can improve results and move up the table.

    Yet other things like Shaw continually out of position for goals against, the number of goals conceded or that the new front three have one goal between them in the league suggest something bigger, more fundamental in the set up needs to change.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 48,937 ✭✭✭✭Mitch Connor


    think EL was 30m or so, but i don't know if that includes the extra match day revenue.

    Also beyond the euro money itself, you're talking big enough revenue difference in league money between finishing 6th/7th and 12th/13th or whatever



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,168 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    plus if the team feels Amorim is a busted flush and just waiting for the bullet, expect wretched form in his remaining matches.

    Could they "relieve" him of responsibility but just keep paying him until November, like give him a months notice?

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭EltonJohn69


    we are very lucky to live in Ireland and get the privilege to watch Manchester United vs Sunderland . I’m sure the match will add a beautiful warm glow to our weekend.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 577 ✭✭✭Seattle


    If it is true about the 12m compensation being reduced to 4m in November, then it should be possible to negotiate it down. It would be in Amorim's interest to take 6-8m now rather than dragging this on for another month, only to get 4m.



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