Manchester United Thread 25/26 - Teamtalk/Transfers/Gossip Mod Note in OP 26.09.24

Ten Hag was sacked at; P 9 / W 3 / D 2 / L 4 / GF 8 / GA 11 / GD -3 / PTS 9

Ten Hag, as poor as he was in the end after a rapid decline, at least had us in the top half of the table for two seasons, won two cups, and got us CL football his first season. As bad as it was in the end, and it was bad, at least we got something out of him.

This season we stand at; P 6 / W 2 / D 1 / L 3 / GF 7 / GA 11 / GD -4 / PTS 7

We've got nothing out or Amorim, absolutely nothing. There hasn't been a anything resembling a positive outlook since he took over, bar the odd isolated result and a failed Europa League run (in which his tactics, selection and subs in the final were abysmal). His biggest achievement at the club to date, and arguably his only notable one, has been to use his charming personality to gaslight the fans, and the media, into believing he's "honest" with his talk of "having to take the pain" to excuse nearly a year of utterly disastrous results. He's been United's worst manager in living memory to the point that he is actually a blind man's Ten Hag.

If we don't win at Sunderland, Amorim simply has to get the bullet straight away after the match regardless, because that'll literally be a case of "anyone will do" simply because they can't actually do worse than Amorim, as his record is simply that bad.

Because losing points to Sunderland, especially a loss, and we're definitely well in relegation territory. And that's not hyperbole or exaggeration.

Amorim's league record has been seriously padded by performances against the promoted sides. Of the 34 points in 33 games he's won in the league, 13 have come against the promoted clubs in 5 games with a +7 goal difference in those 5 games.

The record in the other 28 games against established non-promoted teams in the league stands at a brutal 21 points, and -20 goal difference. That is relegation form in any language.

What's worrying is the promoted teams last season were the worst three promoted sides in PL history. They had the least amount of accumulated points of any set of promoted teams. They were easy pickings. This year, to date anyway, Sunderland, Leeds and Burnley (needed a last minute penalty to get past them, at home) don't look to be anywhere near as bad, and certainly look competent enough to get a few results against us.

And if we start dropping points against promoted sides, we're in very serious sh!t, because our trajectory under Amorim (P28, 21 PTS, -20GD) against established league teams is most definitely relegation. That's not saying that'll happen, but that's the trajectory.

A win against Sunderland might defer the inevitable, but anything other than a win and you may end this failure of a manager before we're staring at the championship.

PS - Serious questions have to be asked of INEOS and how they're running the club as well.

Because not removing Ten Hag after a disastrous season where the football was desperate and the coaching was obviously poor, and then compounding it by giving him 200m+ to spend only to have to do what everyone knew was inevitable after 9 league games into the season was an horrendous mistake, but having to fire another manager after another 200m+ summer investment after a far, far worse run of results just over a year later is simply unforgiveable.

And if they double down on Amorim and keep him on regardless of results because he's "their guy" and they trust in him, and we're in worse trouble coming towards Christmas (does anyone honestly think this will get better?), then we may forget about INEOS ever taking the club forward.

Hadn't heard that about Wilcox. Why on earth would he overrule him on signing a midfielder ?!

I dunno how anyone thinks we can avoid defeat to Sunderland. Never mind beat them.

Iraola should be a name at the top of their list to replace Amorim. He's out of contract next summer so I'd be trying to suss out his camp to see if he's willing to come in.

His first season as manager he gets them their highest points total in the league. Breaks that record again in his second season. Come his third season he loses his first choice GK, CBs, and LB yet after five games in the PL with the joint second toughest opening five games according to opta he equals Bournemouths best start to a PL season after five games.

This season they talked about PL ready when signing Cunha and Mbeumo. Watkins and Martinez were preferred by Amorim for the same reason. This line of thought should be followed when hiring the next manager. Frank was my pick the summer when ETH should have been moved on but after him Iraola is looking like a good pick.

Very solid?? That has to be a wind-up surely? Have you never heard of having standards? He's one of the worst defenders I've ever seen playing for an elite level club. No pace, turns like a tank and has no positional sense whatsoever. He's actually the perfect on-field representation of the club over the last few years. Just because he has popped up with a few headers now and then over the years does not negate the fact he is a shocking defender.

Brentford's first goal summed Maguire up perfectly. He steps back, then steps up in a panic but of course it's way too late and Thiago is off and running. I would guarantee you that strikers rubs their hands with relish when they hear hear he's on the team sheet.

Just because he shouts at referees and never went on strike or leaked team news to the press doesn't mean he we should all forget the amateur league rubbish he produces on the pitch every single week.

He was so bad for the goal wasn't even the step up and step back that was the worst, his other two Cbs are standing in the oppositions half he should be up with then our at least on the half way line, he was absolutely asleep to be in his own half 10 yards behind them.

There is no way he should be starting for us these days he just doesn't want to play in a team playing a high line his instinct will always be to be back further.

It's not really his fault our squad is such a mess after all the years of the glazers and inoes have tried to do way too much bringing in a manager who wants to play a back 3 when we just don't have the squad for it.

Maguire was best in a low block, counter-attacking team. With his back to goal and facing an opposition press or set pieces he could clear everything that came into the box. Ask him to play a high line and he'll be exposed for his lack of pace though. His mare at United began when ETH expected him to play high up the pitch in a team that retains possession but that's not his game. In fairness, Maguire is only one of many players being asked to play outside of his strengths, not least Amorim using him as a last-minute sub at CF. Anyway, he'll be gone at the end of the season but he could still do a job for Everton or West Ham.

I may be catastrophising here and I don't necessarily think Bayindir was particularly bad compared to some of his performances at the weekend but I can think of a few clubs that got relegated almost purely because of how bad their keepers were over the years, Meselier at Leeds, Trafford at Burnley, Hermansen/Ward at Leicester. We know what Bayindir gives you, Lammens we don't. Surely you put in Lammens now (unless he's terrible in training) and then reconvene in January if its looking just as bad. I am sure we move up the table with a new manager and a system thats more suited to the squad, but if we stick with Amorim, he will keep us around the bottom of the league.

He needs a lot more than that tbh. A win v Sunderland won't and should not change anything. We need to draw a line under this regardless, it's only a matter of timing.

Won 5 drew1.

What I would give for that as an United manager. 83.33% win rate.

Why has he dropped Yoro ?

he's a young CB who doesn't need to be starting every game? He thought the height of and aerial ability of De Ligt and Maguire would be more important with Casemiro out?

Not every decision is 100% wrong or ununderstandable or without merit.

And therein lies the problem.

Ruben needed specialist players. Wing backs, midfielders etc…

They know Ruben is a system manager. They hired him because that is presumably the direction they have decided to go.

So why would you then deny him essential components to play that system?

Are they afraid of ANOTHER STYLISTIC CHANGE after Rubin.

So they do not see any overlap with a potential next appointment needing wing backs?

How exactly is this any different from Woodward and Murtough and their reactionary leadership?

If they were at that stage in the summer then Ruben should have been sacked there and then. You don't undercut him and send him out to fail then.

Ruben has made his own bed with his poor decisions as well but once again another manager at Man Utd is being let down by those above him.

Back to square 1 again

Change the manager. If he doesn't work, change it again and in the meantime keep refreshing the team and getting the recruitment right. Eventually it will click and when a manager shows great signs of progress and has a bad patch. Give him time when it's earned.