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Presidential Election.

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,596 ✭✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    It’s up there with “Will someone think of the children” - it’s noble but it’s saying nothing- that’s my point - there’s no data on what’s working what’s not- you can be guaranteed that pretty much every sanction is “hurting” ordinary Russian people- but that’s by design - you make a countries citizens “uncomfortable” so that they start asking questions, start being vocal putting pressure on pr1ck Putin - we know that if Putin had all the money in the world, his citizens would still be suffering because he wouldn’t be sharing it out- of course citizens hurt with sanctions - but so too do oligarchs and wealthy Russian company owners and Putins friends - at least they’re alive - many Ukrainians aren’t - if the Russian army had balls they’d have strung up Putin at this stage - so they obviously don’t - sanctions or no sanctions - the ordinary citizens of Russia will still suffer - just like the failure of the potato crop wasn’t the reason for famine in Ireland in the 1800s neither are sanctions the reason Russian citizens are suffering



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,608 ✭✭✭ilkhanid


    There are a large number of Ruzzian-speakers in Estonia. Putin might consider that they need to be ''rescued'' in the future.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 79,472 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Did someone mention word salad’.

    You or I cannot assess the effects of sanctions.

    The point I made was there are sanctions that can still be applied.

    But the NATO top dog is too busy playing games.
    Russia should have been a complete pariah shunned state from the minute they put an aggressive foot in Ukraine.
    They STILL aren’t.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,596 ✭✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    We’re probably heading down an off topic rabbit hole on Russia/Ukraine war so I’ll pull back now as don’t want to derail the thread - back on topic, now that we’ve discussed this aspect of CC, I’ll be listening more closely to just what she says on this issue if anything and indeed what is her key election theme- will it ever be brought back to ordinary citizens in Ireland or is this a election going to become sound bytes for votes on international issues?

    I think at this stage if a candidate can’t translate world issues into a “so fcking what?’ statement as to why we should vote for that candidate as president of Ireland they’ll be getting my no3



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,653 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Although there is merit to the concept that "if not all sanctions have been tried, why not try more?" I think as far as the discussion of arms buildup go, it fails to move to the next stage of analysis.

    If "more sanctions" is the logical progression from "current sanctions" on the scale of effect to be used if "current sanctions" aren't working, then the next question must be "what if more sanctions don't work either?"

    Eventually one will get to the question of miltary conflict. There is no fallback position after that, and no consolation prize for those who lose such a conflict but have the moral high ground of not having spent the money ahead of time. To paraphrase Wellington, the only thing worse than winning a war is losing it.

    Miltary buildup is a process which takes years and cannot be delayed whilst waiting to see if other non miltary actions are having the desired effect. Criticizing those who are buying an insurance policy makes one seem foolish.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 79,472 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I don’t think a candidate is going to be overly bothered by not getting the vote of somebody who judges them on their appearance.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Actually she is unapologetically pro-appeasement in a Neville Chamberlain fashion.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 32,767 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Connolly went to Syria and saw the impact of a dictator waging war on his own people and claimed it was the fault of the West and sanctions. Because that is the only prism through which she can see anything.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    And Israel can keep its settlements in Gaza and the West Bank too, is that what you and Catherine are proposing?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 32,767 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    This frankly does a lot of disservice to Chamberlain. He was misguided but he also knew the UK couldn't compete with Nazi Germany at the time and was overseeing a massive refit of British armed forces.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,596 ✭✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    It’s not just me and I don’t judge her purely on appearance.

    The President of Ireland role is essentially an empathetic role to the Irish citizens and a PR role to the rest of the world- to date I’ve seen neither empathy nor PR - just rubbish statements about sanctions and an insistence that Ireland will be unified and for us to prepare for that which amounts to aggression in terms of how she said it taking no account of impact on those in the minority in the republic - she can go and sho1te if she thinks she’ll win the election with that claptrap



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    So let me understand your position from your various posts.

    (1) You don't know whether sanctions work or not (this post)

    (2) You are against sanctions on Syria (Connolly was right)

    (3) You are for sanctions on Israel (you support the OTB)

    (4) You are for and against sanctions on Russia (you seem to be confused on this one)

    Have I missed anything?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 79,472 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    If Connolly saw that the sanctions were not working I have no reason to disbelieve her and applaud her bravery for saying it.

    I am for sanctions that work. Israeli reaction to our intention tells me the OTB will work in some degree.

    I don’t know what sanctions are working on Russia and I know the head honcho of NATO is gameplaying with the threat of more.

    Anything else?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    You are consistently inconsistent, that is clear.

    When sanctions don't work, and we haven't prepared for anything else, what do we do when Russia invades the Baltics? This is the question that will stump appeasers like Connolly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 79,472 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Isn’t there a NATO threat that covers that?

    The combined forces of NATO take action I presume.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,608 ✭✭✭ilkhanid


    How did being anti-war in 1939 work out? How did appeasement work out? Austrian Anschuss? Wring hands? Sudetenland? Appeasement. The rest of Czechoslovakia occupied? Wring hands again. Poland…well, what….call for negotiations, send a harsh letter? When France and Britain finally stood up and said 'no more' was that wrong?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,608 ✭✭✭ilkhanid


    Did she ask Ruzzia to de-escalate? How about Putin stopping firing missiles into apartment blocks?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,608 ✭✭✭ilkhanid


    What BS is this? His country doesn't want de-escalation? What country? Trump IS the USA now and it seems to have escaped your notice that Trump has been pussyfooting around Putin for years now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    So when the Russians cut all our communication cables and electricity interconnecters, what does little old Ireland do?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,608 ✭✭✭ilkhanid


    In other words,appeasement. Millions of Ukrainian people are sentenced to repression, terror, deportation, expulsion, the destruction of their language and culture, more refugees throng into western Europe, Putin is emboldened and starts licking his lips at the prospect of the next pressure point to start his tricks and your word for all this is….'unsatisfactory'.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,596 ✭✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    They don't care about Ukrainians. Connolly and her supporters believe in Greater Russia. Didn't we have Sinn Fein opposing sanctions on Russia over the Crimean invasion. All complaining about "NATO provocation". PBP every week find a reason to criticise the US. All of them don't have a clue.

    I would guess that Labour will learn a lot from this election and start distancing themselves from the rabid anti-Americanism of the far-left.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    We probably would have to light the camp fires because we won't have electricity. A sing song because we have no internet either will probably be required.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 79,472 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    That all escalated quickly. 😁 Deep breaths maybe?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,332 ✭✭✭Thinkingaboutit


    It seems a silly thing to put that waste of money front and centre. After seven years of whichever mid candidate wins, she could've run again, now she's Mrs Hermes. Willy O'Dea could've ignored Martin's threats and signed an endorsement of her. Even Gareth Sheridan seems more interesting.

    I wonder will any of Gavin's former Dublin team endorse him (anyhow his comments about rumours only drew attention to them and the collective Irish Media Mafia will swear omertà over it, so why did he even talk about it?) Regardless, whatever he says or has said or done, it isn't as foolish as some of the words from Catherine Connolly on 'German militarisation' (in fact its basically no more than restoring Germany to what it was in the late 80s, a decent sized non nuclear power) and similar. Anyhow while Humphreys and Gavin are probably largely inoffensive (forgetting the largely negative legacy of FF and FG), even Connolly, which is probably the point: none of them are that interesting.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,890 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    I'm not a mod but Blanch and Francie if ye keep this up for another three weeks the election will be very tedious. Every candidate has pluses and minuses. It's not totally black and white. We're not voting for Donald Trump, just to stick it to the others.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,596 ✭✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    you’re the one making personal comments against posters no less reversing out of clearly stated positions so you can drop your holier than thou act



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,653 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Doesn't NATO require an actual miltary force to cover it, though? The effect of NATO comes from its ability to conduct miltary action. That requires a substantial financial investment, which brings us back to square 1 of this discussion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 79,472 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Come on - camp fires, no electricity?

    I’m out. Ryder Cup war is more interesting to be honest



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,185 ✭✭✭Polar101


    Irish neutrality 101 - someone else will help with defense, but it's bad if that someone else builds up their defense.



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