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Israel/Palestine Thread

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,645 ✭✭✭dePeatrick




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,911 ✭✭✭SeanW


    It should be noted that the Nazis only really ramped up their extermination in 1940 to 1945 - all of the extermination camps started operation in the early 1940s and the total death toll was 2.7 million over those years.

    Extermination camp - Wikipedia

    Even the most egregious claims against Israel don't come anywhere near anything like this. BTW the total death toll from World War II is estimated at 75-80 million people. The Gaza War is … somewhat lower.

    https://u24.gov.ua/
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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,911 ✭✭✭SeanW


    Do you need me to read it for you? There are several high profile claims by both Hamas and their directors in Iran, including Qasem Soleimani (rest in piss), eyewitness accounts from former Israeli hostages, and photos of findings of parts of the system from previous Gaza wars.

    Why does Hamas, who control the Gaza Strip, not allow civilians to use the "Gaza Metro?" for shelter?

    https://u24.gov.ua/
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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 175 ✭✭StarryPlough01


    Well Said!

    Going by the numbers logic, it's impossible to commit genocide against a small national; group.

    Every man, woman and child is a casualty in Gaza - loss of life, limb, and long term generational devastation toll on health and well being.

    What is happening in Gaza is far from over.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 175 ✭✭StarryPlough01


    Trump’s support of Tony Blair to run a proposed Gaza International Transitional Authority (Gita) - which will eventually hand over to Palestinian Authority is absurd.

    Is Blair going to run Trump’s casino and golf course in Gaza. Blair can’t be trusted.

    It’s linked to Trump, and Trump’s son-in-law Jared Kushner (a former Middle East envoy). Anything that comes out of that crowd is poison. ⬇️

    ‘What is Tony Blair’s plan for Gaza and will it work?’
    ‘The former British PM is said to be offering to lead any interim government in Gaza for up to five years, but the proposal has yet to be shared with regional actors and may not be accepted by Israel, writes Bel Trew’

    Friday 26 September 2025
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/tony-blair-gaza-trump-palestine-israel-b2834227.html

    “Gita would be established via a UN Security Council resolution and would be governed by a board of 7–10 members, including at least one qualified Palestinian, a senior UN official, international figures with financial experience, as well as “strong representation of Muslim members”. Sir Tony is understood to have offered to lead this consortium.

    “Previous reporting had linked his initiative to the forcible displacement of Palestinians from Gaza, leaving the enclave open for international property development.

    ^ One qualified Palestinian, what does that say? The people who wrote this nonsense are actually laughing at anyone who takes it seriously.

    It’s not the first time Tony Blair has been humiliated by the Americans. He seems to have an appetite for it.

    _____

    I enjoyed reading one of the comments at end of article on someone feeling there's ‘a need to finish the discussion about where Blair’s vision for a post-war Afghanistan ended up’.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 868 ✭✭✭sheepysheep


    Here's an interesting resourse which puts some of the endless denial of Hamas support into perspective.

    It's from the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research, so it can't be accused of being hasbara. It provides graphical data on Attitudes in Gaza/West Bank over four polls since DEC 23 to the latest on 6th May 2025.

    For any of you trying to convince yourselfs that Hamas are not a popular entity, this should set you straight.

    Some highlights.

    58% still believe the OCT 7th attach was correct.

    87% believe Hamas did not commit atrocities against Israelis on Oct 7th.

    48% of Gazans support recent protests agains Hamas, but only 14% in the West Bank. (Easy know who's not under bombardment).

    85% of West Bank and 64% of Gaza oppose disarming Hamas to end the war.

    49% said that they would be willing to apply to Israel for funding to leave Gaza for another country after the war ends.

    Palestinian satisfaction with Hamas at 57% in West Bank, 43% in Gaza.

    Barghouti remains the overall most popular potential new leader. Abbas a complete non runner.

    If Barghouti did not run, Hamas wins President by a landslide.

    When asked which party they support most 32% said Hamas, 21% Abbas. 34% want nothing to do with either.

    But if new legislative elections were held today with the participation of all political forces that participated in the 2006 elections, 62% say they will participate in them, and among the participants in the elections 43% say they will vote for Hamas, 28% for Fatah, 8% for third parties, and 19% have not yet decided. 

    40% (compared to 43% seven months ago) believe that Hamas is the most deserving of representing and leading the Palestinian people today while 19% (compared to 19% seven months ago) believe that Fatah led by president Abbas is the most deserving.

    40% support and 57% oppose the concept of a two-state solution.

    Overall, Hamas popular, West Bankers seem more keen on 'the struggle' than Gazans. 6% deem unemployment most important problem facing Palestinains. Roughly 40% think it is the war.

    Link here.

    https://pcpsr.org/en/node/997



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,555 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    Agreed. That's kind of what I was trying to say. It's not comparable to the Holocaust but then again very few genocides in history are. Gaza is definitely comparable to the Warsaw Ghetto and what the Nazis did there.

    I was trying to make a point about the language being used. I'm weird like that. It's how my brain works. When someone uses overly emotive language to argue a point, it causes me to ignore the point they're trying to make and focus on the language they're using.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,555 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    Off topic but a mate of mine defended Slobodan. Literally was on his defense team. Really interesting talking to him about he dealt with that, setting aside emotions to prepare a legal argument for the indefensible. Obviously never had to follow through with it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,132 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    Yes, two years into the War on Gaza the Israelis have killed more in their genocide than the Nazis had two years into theirs.
    Excellent point SeanW.
    If the Israelis are allowed to drive the people of Gaza out to a “camp of concentration” they may reach the levels of killing of their erstwhile tormentors.
    Have you defended previous genocides or is this your first one? If so, what do you find particularly agreeable about this genocide?

    We don’t know the Gaza death toll yet. You may not be disappointed.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,486 ✭✭✭halkar


    World War 2, duration 6 years casualties 80m estimate, world population 2b estimate. About 4%.

    Gaza war, duration 2 years , casualties 70k estimate, population 2m estimate. About 3.5%.

    Read the definition of genocide not just the numbers.



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  • Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 11,242 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hellrazer


    I suggest you read my previous post - THE DEFINITION OF GENOCIDE DOES NOT HAVE TO BE A NUMERICAL VALUE OF PEOPLE KILLED.

    Its a defined set of conditions that Israel also signed and which it has been proven that Israel has committed genocide.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,229 ✭✭✭Sweet.Science


    More meetings between America and Israel today to end the war .

    How does this end? Any predictions?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,132 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    The Americans arrest Netenyahu and hand him over to the ICC.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 11,242 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hellrazer


    The only way it will end permanently is with a 2 state solution. Otherwise we`ll be back here in another few years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,229 ✭✭✭Sweet.Science


    That's how you hope it will end . Not how it will end .unfortunately



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,229 ✭✭✭Sweet.Science


    Agreed. But I dont think either party will ever agree on terms.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 780 ✭✭✭Bitcoin




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,132 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,132 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    What happens to Netanyahu when the war ends?

    Conviction for corruption.

    Investigation into October 7th including Hannibal directive.

    Will Netenyahu become a kapporat for all Israeli sins?

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,043 ✭✭✭circadian


    No need to get snarky. Like I said, a single Wikipedia article that can be edited by anyone is hardly a source.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 321 ✭✭dannyo666


    I can never see this happening….Its the only logical answer but itl never never truly happen….so what else can be done?Stopping the ongoing holocaust that Israel are causing first would ne nice……….That lapdog Blair defo doesn't have he answer's ffs anyway



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,487 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Also, the UN have made it very clear that genocide doesn't even have to involve people being killed. Forcing a specific group of people to leave their own country through forced displacement would 100% be a genocide, as the aim would be to wipe out their presence and identity and to stop them existing as 'a people'.

    And in the case of Gaza, they wouldn't even constitute an ethnic or religious minority - it would be the entire population of the enclave (a monstrous idea).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 845 ✭✭✭Fuascailteoir


    Hard to see how Palestinians will view having to live beside Israel as being acceptable after what has transpired over the last two years. The history of colonialism, dispossession and oppression aside, the current level of slaughter has left the prospect of a two state solution in the dust. Israel is fast becoming an outcast globally and might disappear as a settler colonial state altogether



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 321 ✭✭dannyo666


    Greater Israel wouldn't allow a two state solution……

    image.png
    Post edited by dannyo666 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 56,689 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Wasting your time as this has been pointed out to that poster loads of times .He only sees what he wants to see, hear what he wants to hear and supports everything Israel is doing without question. Indoctrinated drivel..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 56,689 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Question for all the Israeli supporters. Do you want Palestine to exist after this so-called war ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,400 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Any other nation on the planet doing what Israel is doing and talking about what it wants to do with other people's land would have been booted out of every international competition and had sanctions placed upon them long before now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 281 ✭✭Pat734


    What would happen if Nato decided it had had enough of innocent human beings slaughtered by Netanyahu and his cohorts? Is it time to drop bombs, kill the genocidal monsters or arrange for this to happen. Lots are talking, we know everyone is abhorred, etc. At what stage will action occur or will the Palestinian race be destroyed completely? Yes, I know Israel has the US backing and all that (might) involve



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,566 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    No action will be taken. The UK has effectively told their citizens on the flotilla they are on their own and that if they are harmed it's their own fault. Now imagine if we substituted Israel for any other nations, would the UK issue such a statement to its citizens or would they warn the country involved that if any harm came to their citizens of severe consequences ?

    There is no red line Israel can cross that would cause Nato to take action against it- even if a Nato member country had their warship sunk by Israel while protecting the flotilla. The incident would be spun by their main ally and apologists on here as an act of self defense . Again if any other non Nato member did that it would trigger article 5.

    Post edited by nacho libre on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,911 ✭✭✭SeanW


    There is a full list of sources and a bibliography.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_tunnel_warfare_in_the_Gaza_Strip#References

    So I repeat my question, why does Hamas (who are the de-facto government of Gaza) not let civilians use the "Gaza Metro?"

    As long as this problem is dealt with, I would be fine with it. In practice I think it would mean an international peacekeeping force protecting Israel if the IDF is restricted to the '67 lines. Obviously the composition of this force would have to be agreeable to both Israel and the Palestinians.

    Regime change would also be needed in Iran as the Ayatollahs have made it clear their quarrel with Israel is a fight to the death.

    https://u24.gov.ua/
    Join NAFO today:

    Help us in helping Ukraine.



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