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Charlie Kirk.

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,484 ✭✭✭z80CPU
    Darth 8-bit


    Utah Governor seeks Death Penalty for Robinson

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESKt-Z2dbMY



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,974 ✭✭✭✭briany


    According to the alleged text (discord?) messages sent by Robinson being read out, this killing wasn't really 'Groyper' motivated that I can see.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,184 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    It should worry people following Bondi's reasoning that the supreme court has already lain precedent outlining that what most would reasonably consider "hate speech" is protected via 1st amendment.
    The ruling in the Matal V Tam case confirms that such speech is legally protected via the 1st amendment as "political speech".

    Further difficulties for what might count as incitement and how the US might seek to limit that?
    Are the quite strict guidelines as to what can be considered incitement that were lain out by SCOTUS in Brandenburg V Ohio.

    Which basically restricts the definition of incitement to speech which immediately orders or directs specific actions. The famous summation below:

    "The constitutional guarantees of free speech and free press do not permit a state to forbid or proscribe advocacy of the use of force, or of law violation except where such advocacy is directed to inciting imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action."

    The efforts of media and political talking heads to constantly push the limits of their speech. To label, defame and honestly in many cases incite, particularly under the cover of religion and politics has created a monster that cannot be slain within the context of the 1st amendment, without amending what free speech means to America.

    In Ireland, it's generally accepted that we have free speech within reasonable limits. That whilst we can generally share any opinions, where that opinion invites, defames or leads to harm, that there may be consequences.

    Whereas Stateside, particularly since the revocation of the fairness doctrine and the rise of Limbaugh & other commentators.
    Free speech is considered absolute and the best shorthand for the consideration given to the impact of any utterance?
    Is best surmised by "Fúck your feelings"
    The argument against incitement generally devolves to the the opinion that speech is protected, that anyone who acted as a result of such speech is acting within their own agency and the Speaker is not responsible.

    The only way Bondi's recalibration of American Free speech could work?
    Would be to label certain speakers and resultant actions as criminal conspiracy and prosecute via that route.

    It is unworkable, impossible and it must be realised that without an acceptance that Free Speech as currently practiced stateside is a self defeating monster. It encourages extremism rather than engagement as a means of growing profile and noteriety.
    The dawning realisation by Bondi that speech can have consequences?
    Ignores the inflammatory rhetoric of her boss and most of the current GOP frontline.

    To focus on nebulous threats such as Antifa, and Dems that called Trump a Nazi.

    Introspection, honesty, engagement and genuine bipartisanship are needed, not Bondi & co trying to dominate a news cycle.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,588 ✭✭✭Bigmac1euro


    1.  BBC (https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cp8wl2y66p9o): Mentions a “handwritten note” found at Robinson’s home in St. George, Utah, where he “expressed intent to kill Charlie Kirk” over his conservative views. It’s cited from FBI briefings and Utah police statements, part of the evidence showing he planned the attack.

    2.  Reuters (https://www.reuters.com/world/us/suspected-gunman-robinson-wrote-note-threatening-kirk-tied-scene-by-dna-fbi-2025-09-15/): Explicitly states Robinson “wrote a note threatening to kill Kirk,” per FBI Director Kash Patel. It was found at his residence, detailed in court affidavits, and links directly to his ideological motives, with DNA tying him to the rifle used.

    3.  NBC (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/live-blog/charlie-kirk-shooter-manhunt-live-updates-rcna230762): Notes a “written statement” recovered from Robinson’s home, described by investigators as outlining his plan to “take out” Kirk. It’s part of the probable cause affidavit, backing the premeditation angle.

    4.  NYT (https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/12/us/tyler-robinson-charlie-kirk-shooting-suspect.html): References a “note found at the suspect’s home” that “indicated intent to target Kirk,” citing law enforcement sources. It ties to his rants about Kirk’s politics, especially on trans issues, per family and roommate accounts.


    And lastly. The messages the FBI are investigating from discord.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,974 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Wishing people dead is bad taste. Unless it's state-sanctioned, then it's fine.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,535 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Patel says the notes been destroyed. The note said, "Summarizing the note, Patel he that Robinson wrote, "I have the opportunity to take out Charlie Kirk and I'm going to take it."

    https://www.newsweek.com/tyler-robinson-note-charlie-kirk-fbi-kash-patel-2129976

    Impressive work by the FBI, destroying such a critical piece of evidence. Nothing about Robinson's politics, etc. Just "I'm going to kill Charlie Kirk."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,423 ✭✭✭Kaybaykwah


    His widow was all about they, they, they and how "they" have no idea what they have unleashed all across this country. Lol


    Watch the MAGAt agenda unfold precipitously into orchestrated chaos.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,064 ✭✭✭Ozymandius2011


    New Ipsos poll.

    20250916_205546.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,589 ✭✭✭standardg60


    The constitutional guarantees of free speech and free press do not permit a state to forbid or proscribe advocacy of the use of force, or of law violation except where such advocacy is directed to inciting imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action."

    Cheers, to me that says anything called for imminently is illegal, which most of it is, rather than stating that force may be required at some point in the future.

    I'll read those cases.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,184 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    The Brandenburg case has led to a set of guidelines known as the Brandenburg test.
    It has led to the most permissive understanding of what "Free Speech" is anywhere in the world IMHO.
    Cornell have a decent primer on it and I'm sure I have some articles on the NAS that I can dig out if you are interested.

    Very important to note that any calls even for immediate violence with a designated target isn't illegal. It only becomes potentially illegal if the violent act itself occurs and even then the likelihood of convicting the speaker would be low IMHO, given the weight afforded to the 1st amendment and the notion of agency of the violent party. What compulsion forced them to act and it would be easier to prove a criminal conspiracy than it would be to gain a conviction that meets the Brandenburg test, and that is also a low probability.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,478 ✭✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    What are you getting at, I've not seen much on this the last couple days but it seems his politics didn't lean right or far right at all



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,423 ✭✭✭Kaybaykwah


    I am speaking of Charlie Kirk’s widow. She was intent on relaying the idea of a conspiracy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,589 ✭✭✭standardg60


    Got it, so both criteria have to be met, imminent and likely to happen. So unless it happens or it's proven that the speaker put in place provisions to make it so it's all protected under the 1st.

    I assume even if it does happen through no actual action of the speaker they are still protected?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 55,571 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    heh, i misread this at first. i read it as '70% of americans think the way democrats talk about politics encourages violence'.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 55,571 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    https://www.kenklippenstein.com/p/exclusive-leaked-messages-from-charlie

    ken klippenstein - seems a reasonably well established (i had heard of him) journalist, albeit with obviously left wing leanings, whether that makes him biased or not, has published the above; it's messages from discord he was given access to, and it certainly doesn't provide any clarity on the motives.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,184 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    There was a lot of Judicial and academic commentary around Brandenburg in the wake of Trump's speech, action and indeed inaction on January 6th. It's what piqued my own interest in the area initially.


    Judge Michael Luttig and others have written extensively on it and it's quite ironic that the current "best" example of why free speech in US should have limits?
    Is the person cheerleading the current calls for those limits but, who as always doesn't see the role he has played in skewing the paradigm to where it is now.

    Luttig's sub stack on the events of Jan 6th and the role he played are a great read.
    It's also a decent jumping off point for further reading.

    The limitations of Brandenburg test versus the current immediate reach of social and mass media as well as coded speech are also becoming quite apparent.

    https://bclawreview.bc.edu/articles/3136/files/662f9d422847c.pdf



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,368 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    It was a poor attempt at killing him and escaping without a trace, walking through CCTV areas, leaving gun behind, using own car, texting about it, confessing to parents.

    You could buy a realistic silicone mask for few hundred, wear sunglasses, wear gloves, don't leave gun, park car no where near, vanish into the day, dispose of gun and mask, never talk of it.

    Deserved to get caught, he's braindead

    IMG_1031-2-1009x1536.jpg


  • Site Banned Posts: 5,279 ✭✭✭political analyst


    Tyler Robinson's court appearance just now took place via video link and so he didn't leave jail. So why was it thought necessary to put a bulletproof vest on him?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 968 ✭✭✭greyday


    Rumour he looked like a Palestinian kid so highly likely the Israelis would find a way to murder him in cold blood?

    Why do you think he had one on?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,729 ✭✭✭✭Snake Plisken


    Breakdown of what happened with the parents and texts between his "room mate" after the event.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,974 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Based on what has come out about the murder, he wasn't exactly planning this for a long time. Apparently, he'd heard a week prior that Kirk would be coming to that college to speak and so put together a fairly basic plan to go and shoot him. It would appear that he was a terminally-online 22 year old college dropout who could handle a rifle. Not exactly the Jackal.

    Still, you do have to wonder how he didn't even anticipate how 'hot' the scene would be after killing Kirk, nor the amount of CCTV that would be around the place. Having said that, it's difficult to know how long-term he was thinking with all of this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,042 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    So there you have it. Not a right winger, not a groyper. Suppose that won't be good enough for some on here either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 968 ✭✭✭greyday


    Pity his father in all of this, the family must be utterly devastated.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,042 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Pretty sure the roommate destroyed the note after he read it but told the fbi what it said.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 807 ✭✭✭marilynrr


    It's a suicide-prevention vest, they're not allowed to wear normal clothes in the suicide watch unit he's in.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,042 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    They said his mother recognised him from the cctv images they released. Can't imagine how that must feel. You'd just want it not to be true. Awful.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 807 ✭✭✭marilynrr


    Can't believe he thought he might have got away with it, perhaps he thought it would be suicide by cop which is why he didn't disguise himself so when that didn't happen he got carried away thinking 'maybe I have a real chance of getting away with this', which was extremely dumb obviously, because there was no chance whatsoever.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,923 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    A white male idiot with easy access to guns, again.

    What do you think should be done to reduce the chances of this happening again?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,042 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    What could possibly be done to stop a seemingly trustworthy grown adult from accessing a hunting rifle that belongs to a family member? Its not like he went out and bought it. If a white male asks to borrow a gun from grandpa he should immediately call the police on him?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,601 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Looks as if there are still nothing known as to the meaning of the memes on the bullet casings, but not a left winger either, which must be a disappointment for some on here.

    Just an angry young man steeped in a gun culture that allows way to much access to high calibre firearms



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