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Charlie Kirk.

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,756 ✭✭✭kingtiger


    Sure, his strong support for the Second Amendment was well known, but that doesn't make cherry-picking a quote without its full context any less lazy or misleading.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,956 ✭✭✭el Fenomeno


    The internet sleuths have now targetted the shooter as a trans male who lives in Utah who has attended Kirk debates before, and even engaged in a debate with him. Has supposedly uploaded music to SoundCloud earlier this year with titles referencing the impending death of Kirk, and the pictures posted do bare a fairly strong resemblance to the FBI images of the shooter.

    All to be taken with the hugest grain of salt in today's AI and lunatic driven asylum. We all remember what happened when they thought they uncovered the Boston bomber, so I won't name them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,959 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Nurse Boobies, Danger Vince?

    I mean there is looking for offence and then their is actively trawling billions of posts and compiling a jpeg looking for offence.

    😂



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 54,134 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    I've seen the full context excuse about this quote and the empathy quote so I looked up what he did say to get the full context and honestly it changed nothing. What he said he said and both were both stupid and disgusting. The man was a bit thick from what I saw of his debates.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,756 ✭✭✭kingtiger


    Okay, so you think Kirk's statements were "stupid and disgusting" Care to elaborate why exactly? Or are you keeping that a secret? If you've seen the full context and it changed nothing, spell out what makes them so dumb instead of just name-calling.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 54,134 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    More people own cars than guns in America. Theres 40k road deaths a year in America. 45k gun deaths a year. Gun deaths exceeded deaths from cars.

    Also cars and motor vehicles serve a purpose and are essential for the economy. Guns are designed to kill.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,409 ✭✭✭scottser


    So when Paul Pelosi was attacked with a hammer that time, you came out and denounced it, right? And that time when Melissa Hortman and her husband were murdered, you spoke out against scummy right-wing violence too, yeah? And when Josh Shapiro's home was torched in an arson attack, you called that out too, didn't you? And you called for a halt to the attacks on Tesla showrooms as well, no doubt. Gretchen Whitmer, Steve Scalise, January 6th all those events had you calling for restraint from your buddies on the right-wing, didn't they? Even now, you think that holding migrants in illegal camps and putting federal troops on city streets without the consent of the Governor is also scummy and you're calling that out too? Were you even a little sick in your mouth about Trump's crypto scheme, the golden trainers, the bibles, the tacky watches? The rape and felony convictions?

    Or are you just offended at the irony of a gun nut getting a bullet in the neck? That someone who preached violence toward others met a violent end themselves? That's not scummy, it's just karma.

    Post edited by scottser on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,976 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    But it isn't misleading, he didn't care that guns kill people and then he was shot and killed. The actual quote might have been cherry picked but it is in no way out of context with the mans beliefs



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 54,134 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    What's to elaborate, the context is in what he said. It's just really obvious hate baiting, the kind of thing that stupid people fall for.

    Also him being a bit thick is in relation to his debates. I saw one yesterday trying to argue against science by saying some nonsense about miracle of birth. He is just constantly losing debates to people that are educated but if you are a bit think you probably think he is making good points because he has been trained and coached to be a theatrical debater.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166 ✭✭ChickenDish


    The reason guns were invented was to kill humans, they have since been refined to kill human being more efficiently, if there was less guns in the hands of nut jobs, there would be less gun death needlessly.

    If there was less traffic on the roads, there would be less deaths, but what some people are incapable of comprehending is that vechicle's were designed to transports people or goods, not to kill people.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,667 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Unfortunately, cars are pretty much a necessity in a modern economy. If you wave the magic wand and made it so that no ordinary citizen could get in their car or lorry tomorrow, the chaos that would create in just 24 to 48 hours is hard to imagine. And I don't mean just outrage, of which there would be plenty, but getting things from A to B quickly via road on the daily.

    On the other hand, with guns, if you made it so guns were no longer easy to find and use overnight by ordinary citizens, there would be outrage I'm sure, but no economic shutdown or basic necessities no longer available because they can no longer be delivered to shops or you can't get to the shop to buy them (or you can't even get to work and so on). Would The Purge happen, as some American conservative commentators would undoubtedly claim in this scenario? I doubt it, but if it did - if the only thing keeping the USA from turning into an orgy of criminal violence is the possibility of every citizen being heavily armed, I think that points to a very broken, paranoid society with no social cohesion or trust, and something that would need to be urgently fixed and maybe thereby rendering the need for so many guns unnecessary.

    It's all a bit of a moot point, anyway, because gun control advocates in the US seem to largely accept that a widespread ban on guns will never happen as it is too deeply entrenched. The main thing to get outlawed nationwide would be private gun sales and gun show sales. I suppose you can never stop a legitimate gun owner from giving a gun to someone else, perhaps for a few quid under the table, but you can hand them their arse, legally, for doing so.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 615 ✭✭✭littlefeet


    Can someone explain this, who exactly are the radical left that the MAGA right want to declare war on, are they targeting individuals or the government departments or what?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,756 ✭✭✭kingtiger


    Okay so now youre straight-up attacking me by calling me "thick" (nice typo there, by the way) all while dodging my original question and tossing in some vague jab about his religious beliefs with zero actual substance or explanation.

    And whats this about "hate baiting" how exactly is Kirk's statement "obvious hate baiting" that only "stupid people fall for"? If its so obvious spell it out instead of more name-calling. So who's really the "thick" one here?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 54,531 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    I have heard that he was an excellent orator and one of his specialties/signature behaviour was having the honesty or rigour to travel around university campuses and debate the issues toe to toe with students.

    Also I have read that there's lots of footage of him 'destroying' his debate opponents in such contexts.

    But if the above is true, are we actually surprised that a man who has made a career of this is going to be easily bowled over by a student who hasn't nearly as much experience in this context?

    I.e. how he performs in a university debate would be far less telling than him going up against a seasoned debater or interviewer. But the easy wins in a college are the ones which place him in a better light and are the ones which go viral?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 54,134 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    If you think that was directed at you then you're going to have to deal with those issues yourself. I've answer your questions. If it's beyond your comprehension then not my problem.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,667 ✭✭✭✭briany


    It's whoever MAGA want them to be. It sort of works better for them undefined because it really underlines the ridiculousness of the term when they apply to such 'radical left' bogeypeople as Kamala Harris. In any other western nation, she'd be centre-right. If you needed a reminder of how far-right MAGA are, you can use this as a little calibrating thought.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,959 ✭✭✭✭Boggles




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 540 ✭✭✭myfreespirit


    One should not speak ill of the dead; having said that, the truth is that Charlie Kirk was:

    • A white supremacist
    • A homophobe who said that homosexuals should be stoned
    • An Islamophobe who stated that "Islam is the sword the left is using to slit the throat of America"

    This is fact, this is the truth.

    Charlie Kirk claimed to be a follower of Jesus the Nazerene. I do not believe him.

    Political assassination is to be condemned in all cases, make no doubt.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,756 ✭✭✭kingtiger


    Charlie Kirk's strategy with Turning Point USA focused heavily on university campuses to engage and recruit young conservatives. He used viral 'Prove Me Wrong' debates as a way to push back against what he saw as liberal dominance, sparking conversations about free markets, limited government, and cultural issues.

    This approach effectively created shareable content that boosted his following and fundraising, while also organizing rallies, voter registration, and activism to make conservatism appealing to Gen Z.

    As a centrist, I’m not fully aligned with his views, but I can appreciate how well this strategy worked in mobilizing young voters.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,401 ✭✭✭Jack Daw


    Nothing wrong with being an Islamaphobe, it's a stupid religion (like them all) which has had an overwhelmingly negative impact on every country it gains prominence in. Islam is a belief system and opposing a belief system is perfectly reasonable.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,563 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    He was a very polarising figure but in America you are perfectly entitled to criticise Islam. And there's plenty to criticise. The left absolutely has a love in with it.

    Funny you say he's a white supremacist but he was said straight to black people in those debates that nobody should be hired because the colour of the skin but based off their skills. For a man who openly stated pregnancy due to rape shouldn't be allowed termination I don't think he'd lie about people of different colour being viewed as equal.

    Some of his views in DEI, immigration, Trans etc I'd agree with. Others like gun control, abortion, Russia and Israel I'd be against. Very polarising figure with a beautiful family. Didn't deserve to be shot but it's revealed a cancer in our society. Those who openly celebrated his death. Thankfully some are being fired but not enough.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,879 ✭✭✭circadian


    Exactly, Twitter was awash with this type of **** when the Democrat politicians were killed a while ago. The internet is full of dickhead edgelords regardless of their political leaning, I wish people could understand this before being selectively outraged.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,959 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Those who openly celebrated his death. Thankfully some are being fired but not enough.

    Who have been fired?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,756 ✭✭✭kingtiger


    Personal insults don’t strengthen your case they signal you’re short on substance. Personal attacks are a classic ad hominem fallacy that sidestep the argument instead of answering it. People fall back on ad hominems when they have no factual rebuttal, which only weakens their credibility. So rather than calling me “thick,” why not engage the points I actually raised about Kirk’s quotes and strategy



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 540 ✭✭✭myfreespirit


    Charlie Kirk on Black airline pilots:

    "If I see a Black pilot, I’m going to be like, boy, I hope he’s qualified."

    Do you think he says the same about a white pilot?

    No. The truth is that Charlie Kirk was a white supremacist.

    The truth cannot be gainsaid.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 54,134 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    The left having a love in with Islam is a baffling statement considering most on the left would be anti religion and agnostic. Religion and extremism is very much embraced by the right. Any islamophobia coming from Charlie Kirk was rooted in racism or brown people.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,343 ✭✭✭brady12


    What I have learnt in the last year or 2 is that the left is as bad as the right and neither side can be reasoned with .



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 54,134 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    It's grand. You're not going to get it and I'm not going to change your beliefs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,345 ✭✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    Do you think he says the same about a white pilot?

    If it was a woman, or there were diversity quotas for white males, he might



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,976 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Generally speaking "the left" have a tolerance for freedom of religion and are happy to seperate religion from politics.

    It is however notable that certain religions are criticised more than others, notably the catholic church in this country is correctly berated for their historical treatment of women while Islam seems to largely get away with forcing their female members into full-body coverings



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