Charlie Kirk Shot

Well done on keeping up with the exact point I'm making.

thats not addressing the point i was making in any way though? again, where are the examples?

and what am i excusing? there is no evidence as to who is responsible for this act so this cant be one of the examples

interestingly, this were the kind of tactics that kirk himself would use when 'debating' - shifting the goalposts enough so as to not engage with the actual point but not fair enough so as to make it obvious to most people.

Surely that'll be the death penalty so for the shooter I guess?

I don't think you are making a point. You try to reason why words deserve to be answered with violence, with murder.

There is no point here to be had , it's a lunatic proposition you're an extremist.

Nope, I've simply been pointing out that he was a victim of what he advocated for, and what he advocated for was scummy.

You're getting there. Slowly but surely. You might get it in another 11 pages.

Let’s not also forget about that scumbag Luigi Mangione who should get the chair; somehow being celebrated as a hero of sorts over there. The US seems to be in a dangerous way, cannibalising itself and full of perpetually angry people with less to lose.

The proud boys, January 6th. You are too blind to see not everything is Left vs Right. No side is 100% correct. I didnt say Charlie Kirk said anything inflammatory so you are debating with yourself on that one.

the post i was originally replying to mentioned the 'left getting more progressively violent' in the last 10 years, i asked for examples of this

you saying there are countless examples in the last century of people on both sides resorting to violence is not engaging with the actual point being made, just deflection. to use a soccer analogy its answering the question of who is the best english team at the moment by saying that manchester united won the champions league in 1999 - an accurate piece of information on its own but not relevant to what is being discussed

The constant claims of "left wing violence" in American politics, without substantiation or example is quite tiresome. Particularly when the response to political murder or terrorist plots by right wingers, is to equate the damage caused during BLM or Anti-Trumo protests, with murder and terrorism.

If anything matters, it's got to be objectivity and facts. So I asked the most right wing AI around, Elon's baby, Grok to analysis political violence in the United States and to break out the numbers on a partisan, left v right basis.
Somebody here needs to tell Elon, that according to some here, his AI is broken 🤷‍♂️

### Overview of Political Violence in the USA: Left vs. Right Analysis

Political violence in the United States, particularly when categorized by ideological leanings (left-wing vs. right-wing extremism), has been a growing concern, especially since the mid-2010s. This includes acts such as terrorism, assaults, murders, and clashes at demonstrations, often motivated by ideological goals like racial supremacy, anti-government sentiments, or opposition to perceived systemic injustices. Data from reliable sources, including academic studies, government reports, and non-partisan trackers like the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) and the Armed Conflict Location & Event Data Project (ACLED), consistently show an asymmetry: right-wing extremism has been responsible for the majority of incidents, fatalities, and lethal attacks in recent years.

Key caveats:

- Definitions matter: Political violence here refers to ideologically motivated acts, including terrorism (pre-planned significant violence for political ends), hate crimes, and clashes. Non-ideological violence (e.g., domestic disputes or criminal acts by extremists) is sometimes included in broader counts but excluded from core ideological analyses.

- Data focuses on post-2010 trends, as extremism has surged with online radicalization and polarization.

- Both sides contribute, but the scale and lethality differ significantly. Left-wing violence is often more property-focused (e.g., vandalism during protests), while right-wing violence more frequently targets people.

### Key Data and Trends

Multiple datasets highlight the disparity. Below is a summary table comparing left-wing and right-wing political violence based on major sources (covering 2010–2025 where available). Figures include murders, terrorist incidents, and violent clashes.

| Source | Time Period | Right-Wing Incidents/Fatalities | Left-Wing Incidents/Fatalities | Key Notes |

|--------|-------------|---------------------------------|--------------------------------|-----------|

| **ADL Center on Extremism (Murder Reports)** | 2018–2024 | 100% of extremist murders (e.g., 50 in 2021; 25 in 2022; 20 in 2023; preliminary 2024 data shows all tied to right-wing) | 0–10% (e.g., 1 in 2021; none in 2022–2023) | Right-wing includes white supremacy, anti-government (e.g., militias), and misogynist extremism. All 2024 murders linked to right-wing; left-wing rare and non-lethal in most years. Total extremist murders: ~200 since 2018, overwhelmingly right-wing. |

| **Profiles of Individual Radicalization in the US (PIRUS) & Global Terrorism Database (START/UMD)** | 1948–2018 (US focus) | 61% probability of violence (vs. 33% for left-wing); ~70% of post-9/11 domestic terrorism | 33% probability; ~20–30% of incidents | Right-wing and Islamist extremists equally violent; left-wing far less likely. Right-wing: 227 ideologically motivated homicides (1990–2020); left-wing: 42. |

| **CSIS Domestic Terrorism Dataset** | 1994–2020 (updated to 2025) | 57% of attacks/plots (majority white supremacist/anti-government); 335 fatalities (post-9/11) | 25% (mostly anarchist/environmental); <50 fatalities | Right-wing outpaces all others; includes 2020 election-related plots. 2025 updates show continued right-wing dominance (e.g., militia activity). |

| **FBI/DHS Reports (e.g., 2025 Homeland Threat Assessment)** | 2020–2025 | Primary threat: Racially/ethnically motivated (right-wing, e.g., white supremacists); 74 significant incidents (2020–2022), most right-wing | Secondary: Anarchist/anti-fascist; fewer lethal acts | Domestic violent extremism (DVE) high; right-wing (anti-government/militias) most lethal. 2024–2025: 11 attacks/plots disrupted, majority right-wing. |

| **ACLED (US Political Violence & Demonstrations)** | 2019–2025 | ~70% of violent clashes (e.g., militias like Proud Boys at protests); higher fatalities (e.g., Charlottesville 2017: 1 dead) | ~30% (e.g., Antifa/property damage during BLM); mostly non-lethal | Over 10,000 BLM-related demos (2020); 93% peaceful, but right-wing counter-protests more violent. 2024 election: Low organized right-wing mobilization but high lone-actor risk. |

| **Reuters Investigation** | 2016–2023 | 13 of 14 fatal post-Capitol attacks right-wing | 1 left-wing | Focus on person-targeted violence; right-wing: assaults on minorities/officials. |

- **Fatalities Breakdown**: Since 1990, right-wing extremists have caused over 520 ideologically motivated deaths (NIJ data), vs. ~78 for left-wing. Post-2020, right-wing accounts for 90–100% of extremist murders annually (ADL).

- **Trends Over Time**:

- **Pre-2016**: Left-wing violence (e.g., Weather Underground in 1970s) was more prominent but declined sharply; right-wing rose with militia movements.

- **2016–2020**: Surge in right-wing (e.g., Charlottesville 2017; El Paso 2019; Capitol riot 2021). BLM protests saw left-wing property violence but right-wing counter-attacks more deadly.

- **2021–2025**: Right-wing remains dominant (e.g., Buffalo 2022 shooting; election threats). Left-wing incidents (e.g., 2020 riots) decreased; 2024–2025 saw Islamist uptick but still below right-wing. DHS notes high overall DVE risk tied to elections and polarization.

- **Types of Violence**:

- **Right-Wing**: Often lethal and targeted (e.g., mass shootings at synagogues, Black churches; plots against officials). Motives: White supremacy, anti-government (militias), election denial. Lone actors common (e.g., 50% of incidents per ADL).

- **Left-Wing**: More protest-related (e.g., vandalism, clashes with police/right-wing groups). Groups like Antifa focus on disruption; rare fatalities (e.g., 1 in Portland 2020). ACLED: 93% of 2020 BLM events peaceful.

- **Government Assessments**: FBI/DHS classify right-wing (racially motivated violent extremists, anti-government) as the top domestic threat. 2025 HTA: High risk from both, but right-wing more organized and lethal.

### Factors Driving the Asymmetry

- **Ideological Differences**: Studies (e.g., START/UMD) show right-wing ideologies correlate with higher violence propensity (e.g., dehumanization of "others"). Left-wing often emphasizes non-violence or property sabotage.

- **Online Radicalization**: Right-wing extremism spreads via platforms like 4chan/8kun; "grab-bag" radicals mix ideologies for lone attacks (Reuters).

- **Polarization and Events**: Trump-era rhetoric boosted right-wing (e.g., 357% rise in FBI cases 2013–2021). 2020 protests amplified clashes, but right-wing inflicted more deaths.

- **Underreporting/Perception**: Media bias claims exist (e.g., Newsweek on left-wing), but data (e.g., AP fact-check) refute; right-wing violence is objectively higher.

### Conclusion: The More Violent Side

Based on comprehensive data from academic, government, and independent sources, **the right-wing side is more violent**. It accounts for the overwhelming majority of political violence incidents, especially lethal ones, in the US over the past decade. This includes 90–100% of extremist murders and the bulk of terrorist plots. While left-wing violence occurs (e.g., during protests), it is less frequent, less deadly, and more focused on property or disruption. The threat remains elevated into 2025, per DHS, with risks from election denialism and online extremism. Addressing it requires non-partisan efforts like better intelligence sharing (GAO recommendations) and countering radicalization across the spectrum.

Has Trump blamed Obama for it yet?

if you or anyone were to actually give examples then maybe we could discuss it

again, the original post was talking about the last 10 years specifically

I don't think I will. I certainly hope that I don't . I don't see the jump from words/opinions/speech to violence and murder. And I certainly don't understand why you think your words/opinions/speech aren't subject to those ideas.