Presidential Nomination Discussion

Somebody has to control it if there is to be one, and you need a referendum to establish it, so it's bound to be political.

Not necessarily. The fact that the Oireachtas and Councils are routes to the presidency does not make them party political routes. The public, in their wisdom, have voted for a combination of elected reps that make it party political.

It's easy - if you want to be president and want to avoid parties, find 19 other like minded people and get them all elected as TDs or Senators. Or find a bunch of like minded people across all of the councils.

Or work within the party system, but work on them for years in advance to push for a method for a non-party member to get elected.

Or push for a referendum to change the constitution to change the nomination process.

But don't just give out about this in the few weeks before the presidential election. It shows you're not serious about it.

Because we want to ensure that political parties cannot exert exclusionary control over a process.

No.

Wrong thread - this thread should probably have a better title @Seth Brundle

No matter how much you agree with Simon Harris on FG's decision not to allow councilors a free vote at council level, his way of speaking would make you want to disagree with him on entirely anything.

I would say however if Parties do say that this is a non-political election then you'd have to allow your councilors a free vote.

Who has proposed this?

Elections would be unworkable if anyone and everyone who fancies it could get on a ballot paper

That's the way it was designed to be 

And can you back up this ^^?

The route can be open but can also be closed by political party whips. Who designed this randomness and why? What is the point of the CC route if it just an underlining of what political parties in the government do?

There have been 5 president nominated without election O'Kelly (on his second term), Hyde, O Dalaigh, Hillery and McAleese (on her second term).

There have been 8 presidential elections of which the last 3 have used the council route.

There have been 4 self-nominations O'Kelly, Hillery, McAleese and Higgins (the first to nominate himself to go for election in his second term, DeV was nominated by FF for the 1959 election).

There have been 22 Oireachtas nominations, 3 of which had no election.

There have been 9 County and City Council Nominations, in the last 30 years.

I think the Council route is far from uncommon at this point.

That is how you feel, other may disagree, that is democracy. Why should a candidate for president be of merit, at the end of the day it is the people who will decide on the day of the presidential election.

Other than Hyde (As the first) I think there should have been elections to the position on all other occasions, I don't understand why 4 sitting presidents got a second term without an election. And 2 following the death of Childers.

The idea is to avoid a large list of people, at the end of the day it is up to the parties in a PR system to ensure that they hold power in the councils and the Oireachtas, however the last 30 years have seen many voters turn to smaller parties and independents.

Many might consider Catherine Connolly not to be worthy of an Oireachtas nomination, indeed a former Labour Leader and sitting TD considers it to be the case.

You keep suggesting that a democratic vote is random.

Your stupidest series of comments yet.

The Constitution isn't creating "random" outcomes, its protections are operating precisely as designed.

You just don't happen to like those outcomes, and that is just democracy boyo.

If the route can be open or c closed by an election outcome, then that is by definition a 'random' occurrence because NOBODY knows what the outcome of a given election will be.