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Northern Ireland 2125?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,315 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    This gets into another preoccupation of mine, the anachronistic presence of multiple UK teams from non-sovereign countries (which I rather undercut by proposing a team from two countries on this island). I wouldn’t mind so much if the three smaller nations in the UK were any good. England have a decent team these days. Any talented player from NI who couldn’t stomach playing for Ireland could play for them. Better yet they should act like a normal country and have one UK team. Just imagine if in the near future we produced a player as good as George Best in NI and a Roy Keane from RoI at the same time. It would be a crying shame to see them playing for two limited outfits on the island and getting nowhere. I’d almost prefer to see the lad upstairs play for England under such circumstances rather than wasting his talents with NI. He might make a WC final that way. Something else some of the PULs up there don’t get - I cheer for NI when they’re playing anybody but RoI.

    Post edited by Ardillaun on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,463 ✭✭✭Deedsie


    There's a lot there. Doesn't really matter if the UK should or should not have 4 teams. They still do, ans will continue to. Andorra or the Faroes will never qualify for anything but it still means the world to them that they have their ethnicity represented on the national stage.

    I dont want to impose my type of Irishness on PUL community. I want to find ways they can be comfortable as their type of British/Irish/Northern Irish hybrid under a Dublin government in a Unified Ireland.

    If two national teams achieved that in some way thats great. As I also said I would be hopeful in time the teams may merge and represent both communities.

    But why not just be open to ideas that can make unification more likely to actually happen. That should be the goal, the target and whatever can make that more achievable. Lets go for it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,228 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Apparently, according to @downcow (although he lets slip from time to time that it is 'Our Wee Team') the team is representative of 'two' communities already.

    Why should only one of those communities get what they want? What if the other community want to merge as one Irish team?
    The IRFU have done something unique and non divisive and have the support of huge amounts of northern fans and clubs (even if there are a few dissenters).
    Something along those lines is what we should be aiming for. FIFA/UEFA are unlikely to recognise two teams from one country anyway.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 690 ✭✭✭michael-henry-mcivor


    Its not both sides- although that term might help U sleep at night-

    Its hundreds of mad bonfires by the PUL community-

    And one sad dissident bonfire because they have not the wit to do anything else last August-



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 690 ✭✭✭michael-henry-mcivor


    There is one Irish 32 rugby cricket etc team-

    There is a lad from Derry playing for the Republic-

    Its not all two or none-



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,463 ✭✭✭Deedsie


    UEFA and FIFA already recognise 4 teams from one country next door to us. So that argument is reductive.

    No one forces any nationalist in NI right now to play for the Northern Ireland team. Every person born on this island by birthright are eligible to play for the FAI team. All they need is a passport. Why would you think that would change under a Unified Ireland.

    Ideologically I agree with you, one team would be great. But there are significant factors that stop that from happening..

    I take the rugby comparison, I love that we have one team. I hope other sports follow suit and we integrate more and more and more.

    I just fundamently dont agree with disbanding the NI team alongside unification. Let it happen over time fluidly if it ever happens at all.

    I hope it does but I am ok if it doesnt.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,228 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    England, Scotland and Wales are separate countries in a 'union' same as Ireland is a separate country in a 'union'.

    FIFA/UEFA will be wary of precedents and will likely direct that one team represents a UI.

    I was not talking about 'force', I asked why should one community's wish be prioritised over the other's? They haven't even been asked.

    You are doing something I think should be avoided - can kicking.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,463 ✭✭✭Deedsie


    Scotland is not a country, nor is England/Wales. They have national teams that represent ethnicities and regions within a single country, The UK. Puerto Rico is a U.S. territory. They have their own national team. What country is Hong Kong in? Why do they have a national team?

    FIFA can say what they like, the precedent has long been set.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,463 ✭✭✭Deedsie


    Can kicking to you...

    Reasoned and well thought out transition to a Unified Ireland to me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,228 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Scotland is a country as is England and Wales that cede sovereignty to a Union.
    For FIFA/UEFA purposes they are individual countries.

    Hong Kong is a SAR (Special Autonomous Region) and Puerto Rico is viewed as independent from the US by the IOC and I presume FIFA.

    FIFA originally split the teams in the 1950's to prevent anomalies of a player playing for both Irish teams. 4 players actually played for both teams in the same competition. FIFA decreed that the border would separate the teams.
    In a UI how do you prevent that from happening with no border and no entity called NI? Force people to recognise a border again?

    Unworkable can-kicking. Sort it out at the beginning.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    I am beginning to think that you actually oppose a united Ireland. Every single constructive suggestion to make it happen and to bring people along is immediately shot down.

    Either that or you are an exclusionary republican.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,228 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    No.
    I am just super-informed of where can-kicking or ignoring problems and trying to appease your way around them, gets you to on this island - bigger more intractable issues.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Strange that the can-kicking of the GFA killed off a terrorist organisation and gave us 27 years of peace is something that didn't work. Are you saying that the GFA created bigger more intractable issues?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,228 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The GFA was intended as a process. That process was stagnated by foot dragging, blocking and not accepting the wishes of a majority in the assembly and executive. That caused a lot of bigger issues.

    Not tackling issues in a UI because some might be offended and kicking them down the road to appease will just make the issues bigger and harder to deal with.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    The 4 associations pre date FIFA and UEFA so they have always been a member so are unlikely to be told to leave.

    Football is the only national sport where Ireland is split. The rest, rugby cricket basketball and Hockey aren't. Football wasn't split before partition. In hindsight FAI should never have ɓeen set up but unfortunately Football being a sport of the working class, and sectarianism being a working class problem ment it did in the early 20th century.

    After partition both the irish national sides went by the name "Ireland" and scouted for players throughout Ireland. It was FIFA that thought this was to confusing, so made the teams take the name ROI and NI. But NI today is still run by the irish FA and play in green as this was the way pre partition. At least if the sides are merged again there won't be a problem over what colour to play in.

    Whether we get one national side again or not is one thing but it is a no brainer to merge the leagues. In 2025 would a team with players predominantly in their 20's in Belfast have an issue playing a team down the road in Dublin.

    Post edited by ittakestwo on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    The GFA is an endgame in itself.

    Yes, there were parties - Sinn Fein and the DUP - who have disgraced themselves in implementing it in Stormont, but that doesn't change the nature of the agreement.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,228 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    It was intended to be a process towards equality and normality for one.

    Who has continuously dragged their feet and blocked on agreed equality and normality measures?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 690 ✭✭✭michael-henry-mcivor


    SDLP former leaders bit on the side is to run for labour deputy leader-

    Louise Haighs attempt will put a bit of interest on that election this side of the Irish sea-



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 690 ✭✭✭michael-henry-mcivor


    Trimble ran from government for years for nothing-

    Trimble died a dissident opposed to Our beloved GFA-

    The DUP ran from government because a Sinn Féin first minister was happening- the DUP got nothing-

    Sinn Féin left- and they got rid of a Unionist leader and came back to claim first minister status-

    Its great to hear your type supporting us in getting rid of the 1920 government of Ireland act-



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    I am just back from the most wonderful six days with the OWC family at the Luxembourg and Germany games. 

    Just to be clear, when most people use the term OWC in the north, it is a term of affection and inclusion.  It refers to anyone who is committed to making Northern Ireland work - almost irrespective of whether it would be in a UK, UI, independent, etc.  

    I got a couple of people tickets and spent most of the time in Germany with them. Neither had ever been to ann away again before and had only been to one or two home games with me.   One was a catholic and neither were into football but when they sampled Windsor Park, and I told them, multiply that atmosphere and crack by 10 at an away game, they felt they must experience it.  They are coming down off the high today, and the messages they have sent me about it being the most amazing trip they’ve ever been on and they are desperate now to get tickets going forward.   

    Marry that with the accurate comment that someone has made in one of the recent posts, that anyone in Northern Ireland can choose to play for the Republic, and yet next to zero do.  It gives a complete lie to people on here trying to paint it as exclusive.   

    Now, let me be completely honest, I would not expect Strong nationalists or Republicans to support Northern Ireland or indeed and enjoy supporting Northern Ireland – it is the antithesis of what they believe and want.  The policy of most Northern Ireland fans is – everyone is welcome to join the party, but if you feel you can’t, then go and join the ROI party.   We wouldn’t have that option if our team was done away with.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,228 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Two poor teams or one with a chance of making modern tournaments?
    i think I know what real soccer fans would choose. Same as most other sports like rugby & cricket etc have.

    The success of those models won’t be lost on players either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    try telling ‘real soccer fans’ in Manchester that they would have a better team if they united City and United 🤣🤣. I think you are demonstrating how out of touch with ‘soccer’ you actually are



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,315 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    I welcome the model of one team for the island in every sport. No matter what the haters say we have an excellent national rugby team and I’ll never forget when Kevin O’Brien sank England at the cricket World Cup. Outside of golf, Gaelic and road bowling we’re not good enough for two teams.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,315 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    Scotland is a non-sovereign country. It doesn’t have a seat at the UN, can’t sign international treaties or wage war. At least it has its own parliament and First Minister unlike England. It’s like Texas or Quebec, a province or part of a sovereign country, more like Quebec really, at least in its aspirations. The term state is a confusing one in English, referring to both countries and subdivisions of same.

    The UK having multiple soccer teams is anachronistic nonsense. The results speak for themselves. It might have been a good idea if the UK utterly dominated soccer competitions but that hasn’t been a problem for a very long time.

    Post edited by Ardillaun on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,228 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Why travel?

    Ask rugby fans which model they’d prefer.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,315 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    The people out of touch are the soccer/football dinosaurs of NI who can’t see the success of all-Ireland teams in other sports and would rather lose for eternity than throw their lot in with the rest of the island. I don’t like sailing in puddles of the past but it’s undeniable that NI soccer had a distinctly anti-Catholic hue for too long, an extension of the Glasgow Rangers mentality.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    total nonsense. If domination was all that it was about then we would have a UK team which would be far better than any Ireland team. So your argument completely falls down.
    I met no less than 8 German people with Northern Ireland shirts on who have been supporting Northern Ireland since the euros. They love the passion and the OWC mentality.
    It is very interesting when you travel away, the number of other nationalities that you meet that are supporting us.
    I could never understand peoples argument being joining the two teams together and you’ll have a better team – why not Join Armagh and Tyrone Gaelic teams and make a better team. Argue on political or sectarian grounds if you like, but don’t argue just to win a few more games - unless you think we would be world champions 🙃



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,228 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Armagh, Tyrone etc all combine if there are international games against Aussie football teams.

    We have been through the everybody loves us euphoria phase, it fades.

    Given an option supporters and players will opt for an Irish team with the best chance on the international stage. Convinced of that, the proof of what can be achieved is the rugby team even if it has a few bitter detractors.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Yeah, right.

    Do you know what? Try that first in local football and get Cliftonville and Linfield to merge, or maybe Celtic and Rangers.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,228 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady




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