Presidential Election 2025

You may well be correct. I just hope Jim has no skeletons in the cupboard. If he has?

Imagine, a potential candidate, (in her own mind leastways) and a fellow Corkman of Kelleher, disgruntled! They're speaking publicly, freely, does that sound like a dictatorship to you? Kelleher and Gavin go in to a secret ballot. Secret, not a show of hands, the winner takes the nomination. I'd say there's plenty in FF would have made different choices than the two named even. But it's an open battle, a free vote.

Shinner supporters have a lot to learn about democracy yet, a lot, but tabloid points and headlines, they're strong on that end alright, as long as its the finger pointing elsewhere.

And just to add, if it causes ruffles in FF and there is disgruntlement with the leader and its felt he made a mistake and should pay for it, that will be dealt with democratically as well.

does that sound like a dictatorship to you?

Yes. Seems to me Martin has behaved in a dictatorial way. Sorry about that.
You are having to squint sideways to avoid addressing that point, not me.

He acted like a leader, like it or not, he pushed for his opinion to be approved, if its not then surely serious questions on that will be asked. If it is its because they either accepted Martin's advice or supported the candidate because they feel he's their best chance of winning.

Hi, you have current members of FF complaining they knew nothing of Gavin's anointment until they read it in the newspapers. Others talking of 'fear' of the leader.
If you wish to live in denial that what happened here was an attempted dictatorial coronation, work away.

I hold to my view of it.

If it was an attempted dictatorial coronation (and I don't agree it was in case you twist my words again), it didn't work because the democratic checks and balances within Fianna Fail prevented that. Surely that is a good thing?

I don't agree. Because of Martin's pre-emptive move in secret a lot of damage has been done to the chances of the other candidate.

I thing that Martin said that the presidency doesn't belong to a single political party or words to that effect. The reality is that the current system leads to the almost monopolisation of the presidency by the largest parties and the councillors can effectively act as gatekeepers.

A multi-round system would have a longer campaign and more interest from the media and the voters. That could help increase the turnout on presidential elections. The turnout in 2018 was only 43.9% and that was down 12% on 2011. That lack of voter engagement is a serious problem. It creates issues where a president can be elected with the support of only 25% or so of the electorate. Is that a characteristic of, to use the words of one potential candidate, a banana republic?

Political parties have every right to do as they please. They are beholden to their membership, nobody else. You don't like how things are done - the door is over there.

I am commenting on what happened in FF. Seems to me, looking in, that Martin's behaviour has the whiff of a dictatorial move. It wasn't 'open' to the membership what he was doing, at least some senior members were pressured into supporting that candidate according to reports and it looked for all the world like a coronation until one spanner was thrown in the works, leading commentators to say Martin had shot himself in the foot and orchestrated a vote on his leadership.

Perhaps it was a bit convoluted. In simpler terms, target the constitutionality of some related legislation which would then force a referendum. The referendum, if passed, is what would amend the constitution. Isn't that something to do with popular sovereignty?

Believe it or not, there have been constitutional challenges in the past. The constitution is considered a "living document" and there have been amendments. Without these successful constituional challenges, the constitution would have remained unchanged since when it was drafted.

Ahern can provide a focus for the anti-Martin sentiment in FF. That's dangerous for Martin. Ahern's comments a few days ago on RTE were quite sharp. The problem for Martin is that Ahern knows where the bodies were buried. That "we were all in it together" quote, in that context, is quite ominous. Ahern had approached FF management to run as the FF candidate last December and never got a prompt reply. It could get very nasty for Martin and Ahern might have a lot more support in FF than people expect.

What amused me about the article was that Ahern ruled out running as an independent as if it would be a betrayal of FF. As if he has some sort of unspoken code or omertà, for “the party”.

I thought it was only SFeiners who thought like that.

Thats not how it ever works we don't change the constitution to fit legislation, legislation must adhere to the constitution otherwise it is deemed unconstitutional.

We might change the constitution via referendum and then build new legislation around the changes but your way is arsebackwards and not how it ever would or should be done.

Im well aware the constitution is a living document but you dont seem to understand the fundamentals of how changes are made to that document, all your ideas are based in a fantasy land

Popular sovereignty…. what in the ever living fvck are you on about? We already have one of the most representative democracies thanks to PR/STV, and ever nominee for president passes through a filter of those we have already elected so the argument that it is unrepresentative is just based on people who arent happy their ideal candidate cannot get nominated.

Personally I don't want to vote for any one of the people nominated or who are looking to be nominated, but does that mean i think the system needs changing? No, its just a duff year of candidates, the party picks are bland as fvck and the rest of the loopers and morons don't actually understand the job and think its something akin to the american presidential role. Will any of the party picks be as exceptional as MDH? No but they will do for a stint.

I think that's a mad take. Micheál Martin has been party leader since 2011. He has moulded the FF PP to suit his needs since he's taken over. He got them to do confidence and supply, he got them to go in with FG. He has seen off any challenger for the leadership with ease. If he wants to stay leader for another 5 years I don't see how anybody would depose him.

You can say you don't like Martin, that's fine. But to think he's a weak leader is being wilfully obtuse.