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Cold Case Review of Sophie Tuscan du Plantier murder to proceed

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 211 ✭✭thoneaseessi


    The article mentions jubilation among the CCU and says testing is not completed yet.

    I wonder if there was a quick analysis done and it's Bailey but that has to be confirmed



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,389 ✭✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    It’s very possible- but we’ve seen these type of speculative articles time and time again over the years - a “Bailey” article sells newspapers and whilst this article isn’t specifically saying the DNA is Baileys, it pretty much alludes to it in many ways.

    Either there’s a result or there isn’t - if it is baileys I’m assuming it will be announced with great fanfare- but if it isn’t, what then? They certainly won’t announce any names - it will likely be back to the drawing board and further investigation and another few years of no updates .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 211 ✭✭thoneaseessi


    Hopefully. Jubilation and jigsaw definitely implies Bailey

    But paper never refuses ink and all that



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 824 ✭✭✭jesuisjuste


    I think it's just journalistic license about "missing piece" to get more attention and clicks, if they had enough of a profile for it to be Bailey then they would have absolutely ran with that instead.

    If they just led with "undetermined DNA found, will know more in 30 days", it would be much less interesting.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,389 ✭✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    I guess in the absence of no news, such articles will appear to fill the dead air space - we’ll sit and wait it out methinks



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,500 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    We all know that there is the theoretical possibility that Bailey did it, enough time, knowledge where the cottage was, how to hike there at night time, and no alibi for that night. ( excluding the consideration if Sophie would have opened the door for him )

    However don't you think if he really did it, he'd have a better ailibi? Bailey must have known if Jules was a light sleeper or slept deeply. If the latter he could still have claimed having been in bed with Jules all night, maybe went to the bathroom once because of the large quantities of booze he had consumed and returned to bed again…. Jules could neither confirm nor really deny this.

    Bailey could have kept his typewriter at Jules not the studio for that night, and once he returned from the killing and cleaned up at the studio sat in the kitchen and typing as loudly as possible for everyone in the house to hear, - kept up the story of having to meet a deadline for the newspaper.

    It would have made it all a bit more sounding like he had an alibi rather than none at all, - that's what I am saying here….



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,389 ✭✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    “However don't you think if he really did it, he'd have a better ailibi?”

    IF it was Bailey- then my view would be that this murder wasn’t preplanned - the use of the brick as the murder weapon being clearly exhibit a to support that theory.

    So alibi , just like the murder weapon, was simply whatever he could muster together- an alleged over due article to write- a potential that Jules didn’t notice he left the bed in the first place and when her statement changed, he had to do similar.

    That part for me is quite odd but like all the so called “evidence” against Bailey it’s very thin- and the retracted witness statements and 90% “sures” doesn’t thicken it much.

    Gardai theory is it’s a crime of passion- of rejected advances- I can’t disagree with that given the evidence- there’s a lot of hate in that crime - Bailey has to be a suspect given previous crimes against a woman. But I don’t see the premeditation - ergo an alibi wasn’t on his mind that night. That’s, IF he did it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 211 ✭✭thoneaseessi


    Didnt bailey claim he was in bed all night

    Then Jules was coerced into saying he left the bed and bailey changed his story ?



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 43,968 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Doesn't prove guilt though.

    Did anyone else provide an incorrect alibi for that night (and how do you know if they did or didn't ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 824 ✭✭✭jesuisjuste


    The most important factor to this DNA finding is that it hopefully bring justice to Sophie whether Bailey or another perpetrators DNA that they can compare against.

    If it is an unknown person that will be unfortunate (until they find who left it), but either way it should hopefully still get rid of all of the discussion about all the circumstantial evidence, which will be a relief.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 211 ✭✭thoneaseessi


    Agreed although a bit sus that he couldn't remember events as he was up that night and over at the scene the next day



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 43,968 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Hypothetical Q: if you were innocent of something but telling the entire truth would automatically implicate you, would you tell the entire truth?

    I've no idea on his innocence or guilt but we cant assume guilt because he changed his alibi.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 211 ✭✭thoneaseessi


    . Not having an alibi doesn't implicate someone in a murder . Why would it ?



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 43,968 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    There appears to be an assumption of guilt amongst the public and AGS because his alibi changed. Even you just questioned his changing his alibi.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 211 ✭✭thoneaseessi


    I think you're going too far saying there's an assumption of guilt amongst the public . I merely said it was sus.

    He had the completed article to account for his time away if he chose to say he left the house.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,870 ✭✭✭Xander10


    None of the general media seem to be picking up on this, so likewise, I'm a bit cautious.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 43,968 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    I don't think it am - look back through this thread for example and see how often it is thrown out there to help justify the belief of his guilt.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 211 ✭✭thoneaseessi


    The flip side of the article is that Bailey could be exonerated if the killers dna is not baileys



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,389 ✭✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    In fairness a “changing alibi” is likely one of the key reasons why he’s remained in the spotlight for so long- and whilst I agree, it doesn’t prove guilt- it doesn’t make you look completely innocent either 😀

    For this reason, I don’t blame people thinking it could be Bailey - but it’s a hell of a jump to convict him of murder- the evidence just isn’t there.

    And what murderer would leave a coat with his victims bloodstains lying in a bucket or bathtub for all his “family” and their visitors to see - that’s probably the most bizarre aspect of the so called “evidence” - and then we’re expected to believe that he burned this blood and bleach and water sodden coat?🤣 After washing it at kilfadda bridge? 🤪

    There’s way too many “stories”- too many conflicting pieces of evidence which if brought together, contradict each other. I’m 90% certain he didn’t do it 🤣🤣🤪



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,389 ✭✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    Well, as “exonerated” as this case will allow- for all we know the DNA is the scrapings of skin from the hands of a person who recently repositioned the brick back in place as it was likely to fall and injure someone - a completely innocent act. And the killer, Bailey or whomever else, wore thick gloves so was never likely to leave hand DNA on any weapon used that night.

    To definitively exonerate Bailey- the DNA needs to lead directly to the killer and to have proof beyond reasonable doubt - otherwise, people will just continue to argue “Bailey wore gloves”- of course no DNA on brick- and so it would continue.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 211 ✭✭thoneaseessi


    If as the article suggests they have the killers dna and it doesnt match bailey then surely he's innocent ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 727 ✭✭✭GNWoodd


    To those who claim that he wore gloves on the night , the simple question could be asked - How did his hands get scratched ?
    The other issue with gloves is why did he not wear them in the following days to hide the obvious scratches ? He could have avoided the narrative of killing turkeys and chopping down trees .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 211 ✭✭thoneaseessi


    I dont think it's proven at all that the killer or bailey wore gloves

    This story suggests otherwise anyhow if they have the killers dna



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,930 ✭✭✭Day Lewin


    But we know for a fact that he DID kill turkeys and cut down a Christmas tree - getting scratched in the process - there were witnesses!

    So, not proof of murder.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 43,968 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    The reasoning behind those that believe Bailey is guilty is that he wore gloves which is why his DNA wasnt easily found at the murder scene.

    However, those people also rubbish the turkey and cutting trees excuse and claim the scratches happened during the murder.

    So according to them, Bailey both wore gloves and did not wear gloves 🤔



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,389 ✭✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    Ab but the Gardai tried their best to replicate his injuries by cutting down innocent Christmas trees and couldn’t- so he must be guilty 😀



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,389 ✭✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    Again that’s two so called “theories” from the “he must have done it” brigade colliding - you’re correct - no gloves, DNA on brick and scratches to hands- gloves, no DNA on brick or scratches to hands

    But but a 17 years later recollection that Sophie mentioned a “poet”🤣



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 43,968 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Not just witnesses but witnesses who really hated him!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,389 ✭✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    But he murdered dem turkeys and dem Christmas trees- so he must have done it!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,389 ✭✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    So we know what posters will gloat here if Baileys DNA is found on the brick- but for the rest of the more rational and even handed posters- how will you react if Baileys DNA is found there?

    I’ll be glad there’s closure for sure, and glad for her family, not for me.
    But I will always wonder how a case built on such flimsy evidence survived and thrived for nearly 30 years, when there were so many other lines of enquiry to also investigate - Bailey was an obvious suspect given his past brutality against his partner- but a French connection which to me was an obvious one, was never properly explored- and closer to home, there were other more immediate suspects who categorically did know Sophie and interacted with her on this particular visit.



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