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Israel/Palestine Thread

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,322 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Why is food from Europe not getting into Gaza?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 318 ✭✭Nugget89


    I should probably know better than to respond. I've had that eejit on my ignore list for a long time now. But if an Irish person can't understand the significance of a famine, and spends his time deflecting blame from the people causing it…well it's fairly easy to get pissed off.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 11,242 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hellrazer


    @markodaly Not going to post your full post but I agree with you regarding why the EU hasnt been more vocal about supporting Gaza - we are afraid to rock the boat with the US.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,640 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    No-one is talking about "you" - people are discussing your "views" with you. Abhorrent views and unbelievable given you have kids yourself.

    The average Gazan is hoping their children are still alive in the morning. And you're whingeing about the the cost of "back to school".

    Israel turned all Gazan schools into rubble.

    I've seen some tone deaf posts on here but yours takes top spot.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,322 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    That is fair, hence why I am pushing back against the narrative that we in Ireland or Europe should 'intervene' forcefully.

    We simply cannot and will not.

    Its like asking a LOI player to start for Real Madrid in the morning. The intention might be good, the effort may be sound but ultimately, they are out of their depth and cannot compete at that level. That is Europe right now. Out of their depth in the new harsh reality of the world.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,322 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Ah ok, calling me a paid shill is not discussing me, they are talking purely about my views.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,640 ✭✭✭dmcdona




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,640 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    You seem to have a very unhealthy obsession with "force" and "might" and "power".

    The origin of the discussion on "intervention" said nothing about who would intervene and certainly nothing about "forced" intervention.

    You are the one who is equating that with some kind of military force or intervention - no-one else did initially. Yet here you are in the depths of a rabbit hole bemoaning Ireland's lack of a substantial military force.

    It comes across as you gagging to get into military fatigues, jump in your F35 and shred whatever is in your sights.

    Live by the sword, die by the sword.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,623 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    That is fair, hence why I am pushing back against the narrative that we in Ireland or Europe should 'intervene' forcefully.

    Fuck off, you haven't pushed back against anything. You are a pathetic lying cunt, that continues to justify genocide in spite of the unfolding situation in front of you. In spite of the countless bodies; both the dead ones and official agencies calling it famine and genocide.

    You are too deep in now to change your mind.

    Mod Edit: Warned for personal abuse

    Post edited by Necro on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,322 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    I see the world how it is, not how is want it to be.

    Talk of intervention is a waste of time. May as well just say another Mass.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,248 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    But the Europe is not making that decision based on a rational assessment of European interests. They've deferential to the US because they've been selected to be deferential to the US. And its not just deference to the US - a lot of the key European leaders are themselves committed zionists. Starmer in 2020 said “I support Zionism without qualification.” In 2019, Macron led an effort to criminalise anti-zionism in France. Merz is a public and proud ally of israel, inviting Nehanyahu to Germany despite the ongoing genocide.

    The Europeans are not being forced to submit to US demands because of any concern for European interests. They are not uninformed. They've led Europe - willingly, eyes wide open - into a scenario where they are actively supporting the implementation of genocide in Gaza.

    From a purely hard facts selfish perspective, their policies are harmful to Europe. Europe's leaders can and should intervene more forcefully. There is public support for such interventions. They choose not to because they support the genocide.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,322 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    A few things.

    European Leaders are Zionists in the sense that they want Israel to exist as a state. They don't however, want to see expansion in the WB for example.
    European leaders are also mindful of the history of Anti-Semitism in Europe and their nations' part in it, especially Germany, so they tread with caution with it comes to anything Israel.

    They have pushed back at times, e.g. France and the UK recognising the State of Palestine, Germany refusing to send arms to Israel. So they are capable of pushback at times, but it's limited because a) they dont want to rattle the Americans too much and b) they simply don't want to waste political capital on Gaza when more pressing issues are occuring in Europe.

    A stronger Europe would see a stronger response.

    From a purely hard facts selfish perspective, their policies are harmful to Europe. Europe's leaders can and should intervene more forcefully. There is public support for such interventions. They choose not to because they support the genocide.

    How is it harmful to Europe? In a way, what is happening in Gaza has nothing to do with them. They could push Israel more, but it would just open up a rift with the Americans. Now, that WOULD be harmful given the nature of current negotiations with Russia.

    Its not that they support what Israel is doing, it's more that their hands are tied and ultimately, they have little to no say in what Israel does or does not.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,308 ✭✭✭beggars_bush


    Induced famine and stealing the Palestinian land

    Israel is a rogue state



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,399 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Starmer in 2020 said “I support Zionism without qualification.”

    This is the problem with, so called, "zionism". It means nothing and everything at the same time. There's never been a concrete definition applied to the term that's been universally accepted.

    Zionism could mean a belief in a homeland for the Jews. However, it can also mean being in favour of eliminating Palestinians by whatever means, taking over the entirety of Palestine and populating it with Jews instead.

    Both is technically "zionism".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,379 ✭✭✭Spudmonkey


    If Hamas just surrendered the war would be over....

    Meanwhile...

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-israel-will-conquer-gaza-regardless-of-whether-hamas-accepts-hostage-deal/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,488 ✭✭✭almostover


    Why is their a belief that a religious group, the Jewish people, should have a homeland in a specific place in the world? And be allowed to ethnically cleanse the people already settled there, the Palestinians?

    Why aren't Roman Catholics trying to take back their spiritual homeland? Also being Israel/Palestine seeing as the Christian religion has its origins there too? Why should any religion have a home land?

    Sure even us Irish aren't really from this island. Most of us could trace our heritage back to parts of France and Northern Spain, Galicia etc. Why aren't we trying to recreate our homeland and displacing the people who live there now. Or parts of Scandanavia where we can trace many of our ethnic roots to also.

    Zionism is a horrible idealogy, thinking that there is one special place on planet Earth that Jews must inhabit.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,399 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Well, everyone with a functioning brain knew that it was a lie.

    Even the liars on here who were repeating that lie knew it was a lie.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,798 ✭✭✭Frank Grimes


    You conveniently interpreted that post to mean forceful intervention, the person who posted it clearly wasn't suggesting it either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,485 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    First time famine has ever been officially declared outside of Africa (such mechanisms didn't exist in the past when the likes of the Irish, Armenian and Ukrainian famines took place).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,640 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Haaretz straplines - lots on the Gaza Famine story of course but also the usual regular items of more civilians simply being butchered.

    Of major concern is the second bullet - read it carefully. If the Gaza offensive continues, no food will get in, up to 1,000,000 civilians will be at risk of being executed or starved. That's half the Gazan population. The current death toll of 62k will be in the ha'penny place.

    • According to the Integrated Food Security Classification agency report, which assessed that famine was occurring in the Gaza Governorate, comprising Gaza City and smaller towns and refugee camps, "over half a million people in the Gaza Strip are facing catastrophic conditions characterised by starvation, destitution and death." It is the first time that the agency has declared this level of mass starvation in the Middle East.
    • "Any further delay – even by days – will result in a totally unacceptable escalation of famine-related mortality," the IPC said in a statement on Friday, adding that if there is not "an immediate and sustained cease-fire" allowing in a surge of aid, "avoidable deaths will increase exponentially."

    • On X, Netanyahu said that the UN report on the hunger crisis in Gaza was a "modern blood libel," accusing Hamas of "stealing aid to finance its war machine" and staging a "starvation campaign." "The IPC report is an outright lie. Israel does not have a policy of starvation. Israel has a policy of preventing starvation," Netanyahu added.
    • Israel's Foreign Ministry rejected the IPC report, saying the "fake" document is "based on Hamas lies laundered through organizations with vested interests." "There is no famine in Gaza," the ministry added.

    • UN Secretary-General António Guterres said that famine is "not a mystery" and that "as an occupying power, Israel has an obligation under international law to ensure food and medical supplies to the population."
    • In response to the UN report, British Foreign Minister David Lammy said that Israel was refusing "to allow sufficient aid into Gaza" and obstructing the UN and NGOs in administering aid.
    • Netanyahu said in a video statement on Thursday night that he was at the IDF Gaza Division HQ to approve the military plans to "take over Gaza City to defeat Hamas."
    • Israel Defense Minister Israel Katz said on Friday that IDF plans to defeat Hamas were approved on Thursday, involving "heavy fire, evacuation of residents, and military operations."
    • The UN Humanitarian Affairs Office warned that Israel's strikes in eastern and southern Gaza City are causing high numbers of civilian casualties and large-scale destruction.
    • Twelve Palestinians were killed in an IDF attack on a school serving as a shelter for displaced people in the Sheikh Radwan neighborhood of Gaza, according to Al Jazeera, citing local rescue sources


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,640 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Amos Harel with another insightful opinion piece:


    "Abraham Lincoln once said you can't fool all the people all the time. Netanyahu seems determined to test that theory.

    No one in Israel – except perhaps Strategic Affairs Minister Ron Dermer – knows for certain what the prime minister truly intends.

    Least of all the teams working to secure the hostages' release, who have been increasingly sidelined.

    After the brief wave of optimism felt by the hostages' families this week, the suspicion is again growing that, if Trump doesn't force him, Netanyahu will not agree to a deal. For now, the American president totally has his back." – Amos Harel



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,640 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Another opinion piece:


    "Netanyahu seeks to identify every protest against Israel with antisemitism.

    In his letter to Macron, he noted that El Al's offices in Paris were spray-painted with the slogans "El Al genocide airline" and "Free Palestine." This was a political protest aimed directly at the national carrier of a country whose actions in the Gaza Strip are being called genocide around the world. 

    Antisemitism?

    Only for someone who has made identifying Israel with Judaism the cornerstone of his strategy – Netanyahu."
    Carolina Landsmann



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,137 ✭✭✭Randycove


    what can we do? There are only two people who can end this, one is wanted by the ICJ and the other is an orange twat.

    Every government knows this is wrong and wants to stop it, but the reality is, they are powerless to do so.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,640 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Interesting - 25 foreign ministers are apparently racists.

    Israel is not…


    The Israeli Foreign Ministry declared that the call to limit Jewish settlement in "certain areas of the State of Israel" is racist, in response to a joint statement by 25 foreign ministers condemning Israel's approval of the E1 settlement plan that would bisect the West Bank.

    On Thursday, 26 countries, including the U.K., France and Japan, issued a joint declaration against Israel's decision, calling the plan a "flagrant breach of international law" that would undermine the idea of a two-state solution. "The Jewish people are the indigenous people of the Land of Israel. At no point in history has there ever been a Palestinian state, and any attempt to argue otherwise has no legal, factual, or historical basis," the foreign ministry said.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,640 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Netanyahu and Gallant's arrest warrants for War Crimes were issued by the ICC - both men are designated "at large".

    The ICJ case for Israeli Genocide put forward by South Africa and enjoined by others, including Ireland, is ongoing.

    The EU could suspend, again, the trade agreement with Israel for breaches of human rights (written into the agreement). Individual EU nations trading with Israel outside of that agreement, e.g. for the sale of weapons, could halt that trade. Other nations could sanction Israel and suspend trade. UN sanctions could be implemented if no-one pulls a veto.

    There's plenty that could be done - soon enough, it will be done. All nations and the "orange twat" certainly would not want to be seen supporting or be associated with an impending extermination of 2 million people by a blood thirsty war mongering Pariah State. But if they do, there is enough public horror out there that would be reflected in the polls and these supporters thrown out in their ear.

    But time is fast running out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 135 ✭✭purplesnack


    This is exactly it. Why do they deserve their own land? I cannot figure this out at all. There were Muslims, Christians and Jews living together there before the ashkeNAZI Jews decided it was theirs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,485 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Incredibly, the Israelis are going down the route of claiming the IPC used the wrong criteria and technical assessments for judging whether there is famine in Gaza or not. They can't accuse the group of "lying", so have opted for this bizarre legalistic argument instead.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,137 ✭✭✭Randycove


    they could do, but I question what the real effects would be, which does beg the question, why are companies like Allianz being targeted and not the likes of Intel? If the government wanted to make a big statement, it could go it alone and ban imports from Israel, yet despite the words, they seem to lack the cajones to do it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,642 ✭✭✭newport2




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,555 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    Can you point to the post where I said the Brits were saints?



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